[Glorantha] Re: Glorantha Digest, Vol 11, Issue 356

Peter Metcalfe over on the HeroQuest list:

> IMO the Pharaonic cults are common religions like the
> cults of Imarja (HQ p42), the Unknown God Church
> (HQ p44) and Diros (MotS p25) rather than the cults of
> Argar Argan etc.

While I have no doubts that the Pharaoh drew worship from these common religions, they are in no way more typical pharaonic than the established religions of the Sixths. (Diros is the main religion for the Rightarmer humans, but the "real inhabitants" of that Sixth are the Ludoch.)

> Whether the Only Old One actually had something
> similar to what is being suggested for the Pharaoh
> is an interesting idea with some support from the
> Runequest Companion.

I'm fairly certain that Belintar built upon an underlying structure that was already there.

> I'll just say that IMO that
> if the Kingdom of Night had a similar otherworld,
> it had its roots in the Underworld where the trolls
> could move in the myths of their ancestors and that
> the Pharaonic redefinition of it bears as much
> resemblence to the original as to the Red Moon.

The Pharaoh's Holy Country still has its deep roots in the underworld. IMO it is firmly anchored in all the six direction as well as the centre. Back in White Bear and Red Moon times, the six directions were across the edges of the hex map... with the trolls occupying the north, Heortland northeast, God Forgot southeast, Islands south, Caladraland southwest and Esrolia northwest.

>>I don't see why Belintar's Return from Hell quest should be anchored in >>God Forgot.

> Belintar's a complicated guy who has six return from hell
> quests IMO. That ritual of the year king resurrection is
> different from his ritual to resurrect King Andrin and so
> forth.

I'll have to check Arcane Lore whether it made it there, but old Heroquesting concepts included the heroic ability to escape death by knowing a backdoor out of the Underworld. (But this is crossing into the hero plane, err, digest territory).

1616 saw the Wolf Pirates only in the Islands, not the City of Wonders. It was still reachable by normal means until the Pharaoh disappeared that year. We still have to pinpoint which season he disappeared.

>>How well do Lunar scholars know the Hepherones Philosophy?

> Not well but the Lunars have their own means of scouting
> other people's magicial places. The knowledge that the
> Holy Country is divided into six elemental parts is general
> knowledge and not specialized knowledge known only to
> Hepherones and his disciples.

Elemental correspondence with the direction is, though.

The Void correspondence does have its good points. I still need some more compelling support for placing the Pharaoh's disappearance in Sacred Season, before I'm inclined to drop the harvest festival idea.

>>If Tatius was in Sartar at the time, he would have taken
>>part in this, and his support would have amounted to
>>something.

> Why would he have?

In his function as Dean of the Imperial College.

> The Empire is not a monolithic
> institution efficiently marshalling all its resources to the
> fulfillment of the Seven Year Plan. Tatius and JarEel are
> rivals for Imperial Favour. In a culture where the advancement
> for promotion is through the Dart Competitions, Tatius
> would have been remiss if he didn't put some resources into
> sabotaging JarEel's plans just as he was sabotaging
> Fazzur's.

In this case I see it rather like an Imperial Writ entitling JarEel to demand Complete Support of the Lunar College of Magic for this mission. Probably signed by Great Sister in the name of Moonson. Tatius trying to thwart JarEel in this would be of a similar scale to Haradangian walking out of the Second Council on the eve of completion of Osentalka, and would have guaranteed JarEel undertaking something similar to Kallyr's Dragonrise at the dedication ceremony of the new temple. It may well have cost JarEel some concessions, though.

>>The temples in Bagnot or Dunstop aren't that much farther, and more >>established.

> Tarsh is much further away from the border of the
> Holy County than Boldhome or Wilmskirk. If those
> temples were used, it would have required Tarshite
> support while none of the Tarshite factions boast
> of their role in the Pharaoh's death.

Neither do the Lunar forces stationed in Sartar. IMO most supporters had very limited idea what exactly they were supporting, knowing whom they were supporting would have sufficed.

>>Neither they nor Boldhome have any correspondence to the Holy >>Country, though.

> I didn't say correspondence to the Holy Country - I said
> correspondences between the unknown Sixth and the
> Lunar Element. And all that's required to access the
> Lunar otherworld is a temple.

IMO not even that. A Lunar magician of JarEel's calibre probably can cross over with the help of full moon and a decently sized piece of moonrock.

>> I doubt Wilmskirk had more than a regimental shrine and >>an Etyries shrine, it is a fairly small city.

> Which supports Boldhome.

As I said, I have no problem at all with Boldhome being the site of great supportive action. It just doesn't offer any advantages for either accessing the Underworld (where she cut off Belintar) or the Holy Country otherworld.

If a magician could deal with Chaos, the Footprint would be a good place to invade the Holy Country otherworld, crawling in the tunnels of Krarsht. This also serves the Limbo theme nicely. Received on Mon 19 Dec 2005 - 22:36:35 EET