[Glorantha] Re: Mind, Soul, Spirit, Essence

CJ:

>i) immortality is conditional. The Atheist No-God folk do not have it.
>
>
In the sense in which I suspect you mean it, yes. OTOH, the Brithini, among others, are physically immortal - barring accident and the like, of course. What they lack is any sort of continuity after death.

>iii) the undifferentiated self on death persists, but the nature of that
>persistance depends on various factors. It may later be reborn, in
>another body, or it may remain outside of Time in Magical Worlds.
>
Or not, as the case may be. Even leaving aside the Brithini, IMO, some of the Malkioni religions believe that when an unrepentant sinner dies, their soul is extinguished (not necessarily destroyed - it may be resorbed into an impersonal 'magical background' or some such formula - but it does not get to exist as an entity capable of even group consciousness, let alone individual identity).

> It
>may to some extent be eternal, uncreated, or a fragment of a pre-Time
>conciousness which has splintered, or been distributed over arachne
>solara's web, as a "distributed network". Are all humans actually
>fractured parts of Grandfather mortalin some sense?
>
>
Not in my Glorantha, although there may be some religions somewhere that believe such a thing. YGWV.

>iv) it is possible through mental effort to tune out two of the
>frequencies, and tune in to one, making the self concentrated, and
>becoming pure soul, spirit or essence. This does not result in a
>reduction of selfhood, but rather a more focussed self, directly attuned
>to one realm.
>
The problem with this model is that appears to be too simplistic. It explains how one concentrates theistically, animistically, or monotheistically, but does not explain how one concentrates one's magic on something else, other than the Three Otherworlds. Lunars concentrate on magic from the Moon, trolls (I believe) concentrate on magic from Hell, and many people concentrate on Common Magic. These are all clearly different from the unconcentrated state, and so would require explaining in such a model.

And, of course, I doubt you'd find many Gloranthans willing to accept such an over-arcing model, but that's a given for any theory, really :)

> It is also possible to reject all three, and focus one
>energies entirely on the body, becoming a No-God Atheist type.
>
If we're including the Brithini in that, their spell-casters use wizardry (or at least, sorcery, which is pretty similar), and, I would suspect, universally concentrate it. Many other 'atheist' types will concentrate on Common Magic, or simply not use magic at all, which would, indeed, fit with the above.

> This
>may well be seen as a desirable outcome - see Buddhism for examples.
>
>
It's desirable to the Brithini (even those that don't use magic) because it ensures their physical immortality, barring accident, in this world. This, from their perspective, proves they are right. Anyone who stops living according to the Brithini code gets sick, suffering from symptoms such as hair loss, wrinkled skin, loss of their teeth, seizing up of the joints, muscle wastage and other such nasty ailments, until eventually it gets so bad that, after a mere handful of decades, they simply drop dead of the condition! I mean, what more proof do you need that the Brithini way is right and proper?

>I do wonder if the spirit element and soul element for example of a
>Sorcerer might become weak ghosts, or dreams, after concentration. They
>are clearly submerged somehow.
>
>
Again, not in my Glorantha. I'm not aware of any evidence for it canon, either, although some Malkioni sects are known to get rid of their sin in a not entirely unrelated manner.

>vii) Essences may be able to create a place outside Time where by
>focussed meditation their conciousness persists after death as
>individuals - that is a Node. This is uncommon, and most enter the
>great monistic cionsciousness collective of Solace, or are despatched to
>a less desirable fate, still not really made clear.
>
Being extinguished, entering Hell/Purgatory, or doing something else entirely (I think some reincarnate until they 'get it right'), depending on the sect.

>I suspect sinners
>become spirits, souls or just disintegrate on death, rather than
>embracing the sublime oceanic conciousness of Solace? Or are they simply
>cut off from the Great Mind of Solace and the universal collective, and
>hence perish alone, slowly disintegrating as their bodies rot, painfully
>awar eof but unable to achieve that great oceanic feeling and peaceful
>oneness of existence as a citizen in Solace?
>
>
In some sects, doubtless. Malkionism is hardly a single faith, even if its practitioners think it *should* be one :)

-- 
Trotsky
Gamer and Skeptic

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