[Glorantha] Re: Transcendence and Chaos

The wikipedia entry on Buddhism has a section titled 'Anatta' which it might be helpful to read. There is also a main article on Anatta.

Jamie, Orlanth Umathi:

>Transcendence is linked to the cosmos, as it generally involves insight
>into it. However this is so bland as to be potentially meaningless. ...

>...Transcendence is usually an unfiltered experience of the world where
>such analogies break down. It is usually defined as an experience beyond
>the mere material nature of the world.

If we believe that it is possible for gloranthans to realize their Great Self and transcend the material world, then there must be a route from the material world to transcendence. Transcendence isn't an insight into the material world, the material world is irrelevent to a transcended being (using the term 'being' loosely), although such insights are steps on the path to transcendence.

>Chaos may be a part of that material world but so is death or pleasure
>or any number of physical realities.

Chaos isn't 'part of' the material world, it is the annihiliation of the material world, it is nothingness. How can 'nothingness' be part of anything? If you take a chariot and remove the wheels, is the absence of wheels now a part of the chariot?

Dead things aren't 'nothing' in glorantha, they exist in the underworld, but chaos ultimately destroy things so utterly that they never even existed. Dead things eventualy return to the cycle of life, but things destroyed by chaos never, ever, EVER come back.

>I am also not sure about the assertion that transcendence is always via
>one of the divine planes. It may be possible for transcendence via a
>mixed/common magic approach, all be it, yet another different experience.

It is not possible. Mixed/common magic orriginates in the material world, and so will always be part of it. However transcendence isn't necesserily always via the divine otherworlds. Orthodox Mystics don't seem to have an otherworld of their own, yet they are capable of transcendence. Orthodox eastern mysticism is a grey area in this respect. It may be that they actualy have access to all the 'high' otherworlds, but not in an easily recognisable way.

>Cosmos is indeed the opposite of Chaos, but remember such opposites are
>analogy not fact, they are parts of our world-view filters.

Not entirely. The material world IS. It exists (to gloranthans). We can state positive things about it that are provably true. Even mystics will say this, but they will also say that it is not important. They will also say that although chaos is totaly inimical to the cosmos that this also isn't important - not Realy Important - because casting asside the personal self, the I, me, this body, memories, feelings and even the world it inhabits is necessery, and inevitable in order to realise the Transcendent Great Self.

However if you do value your identity, your culture, your family and friends and the world you inhabit, then Chaos is the worst thing that it is ever possible to imagine*.

Simon Hibbs

• To a gloranthan, of course