Simon Hibbs wrote:
> Orlanth and Umath never appear, by name, in any
> Dara Happan myths.
Who is the "Umatum" on the Gods Wall, then?
In the Glorious Re-ascent of Yelm, there are members of various "the Rebellious Gods" groups that are obviously Valind, Vingkot, and various other Thunder Brothers. None are called EXACTLY by their Third Age Orlanthi names, but then Heortlings do not call either Lodril or Shargash by their proper Third Age Dara Happan (or even the now-preferred Pelandan) names, either (at least, not normally). Nonetheless, everyone who needs to knows which is what.
> Orlanth is nominaly identified with 'Rebellus Terminus'
> who was responsible for the disintegration of Muharzarm (sp?),
> so far as I remember.
(Murharzarm - I had to look it up on Lokarnos.com, yesterday)
While DH myths agree that Rebellus Terminus led the Axis of Evil, they are NOT sure that it is not Shargash, killing Yelm for his own good (which is a major mythic role for the Destroyer).
> The mythic roles interlock, but the
> monomyth version isn't native to either the Orlanthi or Dara
> Happa and there are many discrepancies with the orriginals.
The Monomyth started with the First Council and leadup to the God Project. It was further nailed into everyone by the God Learners. By now, it has colored most myths at the less-than-Devotee knowledge level to the point that people assume these are the proper enemies except when they make a real effort to avoid it, much as several Irish and Norse gods became identified with Catholic saints, to the extent that it is (or at least was - they might have been delisted like George and Chistopher, by now) tricky to separate out the historical individuals from the myths (of the gods) included in the hagiography.
> It seems clear that the points of similarity are strong enough
> to allow usefull creative heroquesting. An Orlanthi might
> quest the "Orlanth Kills the King of the Fire Tribe" myth in
> order to get a benefit against a Dara Happan enemy who he
> identifies magicaly with the King of the Fire Tribe, and that
> will work very well
Except that Orlanth killed the Evil Emperor. Vingkot killed the King of Dara Happa (or the Fire Tribe, or whatever).
> , but I doubt that any Orlanthi has ever
> quested the "Orlanth Kills Yelm" quest because they just
> don't have any myths about Yelm.
The Vingkot cult has the specific magic to deal with Dara Happan units (and probably has as good a roster of the pre-Sunrise regiments as the Lunars), so it would be HIS myths that would be used (witness Broyan Volsaxi King, who worships Vingkot as a god in his own right).
> Conversely a Dara happan
> would never quest the "Yelm is killed by Orlanth" myth
> because in their mythology it just doesn't happen like that
> anyway.
Ignoring that it would be high treason, of course.
> Going so far as to say Orlanth is Yelm's blood
> relative is going several steps further again, way out into
> mythic-identification no-man's-land, IMHO. For a start it
> would only be even vaguely possible if Dara happans believed
> that Rebellus Terminus is a blood relative of Yelm, and I
> don't think they do.
Shargash, the original candidate after DH lost track of the Vingkotlings, is officially Yelm's son, as I recall.
OTOH, no one accepts the other's view as to who is right, anyway. If Orlanth WAS a close relative of Yelm, that does not give his people or their gods the right to take the DH throne by assassination. No one claims that Orlanth completed the Ten Tests, after all. Likewise, even if the Emperor WAS Orlanth's uncle (Umath and Yelm being sons of Aether Primolt) that does not give Him the right to treat Orlath or His People as kinless outlaws (as he did in the Vingkotling/Heortling mythology that we know).
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