[Glorantha] Re: Lunar Chaotic Units/Legitimacy (from Outlaws & Orlanth's Parentage)

Peter Metcalfe:

  >Mikko:
>
>>What about chaotic humans and ogres? I suspect one can't advance to
>>a very high rank if one is chaotic, but such humans could make good
>>soldiers.
>
> I don't see why being a chaotic should prohibit high rank. The only
> known prohibition is for the Crimson Bat cult, which is there for a
> reason. Moreover to attain high rank, I suspect the Lunars would be
> far more interested in knowledge of the Lunar Way than a tentacle
> or two.

  In fact, the Crimson Bat prohibition positively suggests that chaotics must be able to be selected for high rank, otherwise why have the prohibition?   

> As for Ogres, they hide themselves and the Lunars have no real
> way of detecting them without catching them in the act. Should
> an Ogre achieve high rank without being caught then there's no
> problem.
   

  In fact, as long as they do their job properly, being an ogre shouldn't be a barrier at all.       

--Peter Metcalfe

> Malk Williams:
>>Actually, going back to the Ogre dietary discussions of past weeks, does
>>anyone think that Illumination would have an effect on Ogrish urges, or
>>indeed their link with Cacodemon?
>
> Illumination won't affect this any more than it will affect their need
> to breathe or defecate.
   

  But, they'd feel better about having the needs.    

  Jamie (Orlanth Umathi):

  > To explain in context with Orlanthi society, Orlanth claims universal
> kingship by a sequence of contests ending in regicide. As a mythic model
> of legitimacy, regicide is inherently flawed, not least because it
> implies that anyone can rule.
   

  The strongest can rule.

> But Orlanth's legitimacy is not just based on regicide, it is based on a
> belief that empirical rule is inherently unjust: it makes all people
> subject to one man and flies in the face of freedom. Orlanth is
> questioning Yelm's legitimacy, and the principle of birthright.
   

  They also have a principle of birthright - Orlanth is Umath's son, Umath founded the Storm Tribe. That counts for something, but it is not as strong as the Yelmic succession.

> The consequences of the death of Yelm and the subsequent quests and
> compromises go some way to redressing the "might is right" / "Divine
> Rule" balance but there is always an inherent principle in Orlanthi
> society, if the king/high king/chief gets to big for his boots he can be
> framed as an emperor and killed.
   

  There are also Heroes from Lokamayadon's time who can oppose their leaders, so their followers can oppose their rightful leaders as long as the cause is good.   

> Also, to take this to a purely symbolic level, there is an unconscious
> connection with regicide and ritual sacrifice. This type of symbolism
> can effect the mindset of the people, leading to an unspoken principle
> that every king will reach a point where he either steps down or must be
> killed.
   

  Possibly, but that only happens when the King is weak or has overstepped the mark. In Earth cultures, the idea of a Sacred King is more pronounced, and several have Seven Year Kings, for instance. One of the ideas about the Pharoah that I liked was that he became the Esrolian's Sacred King and allowed himself to be sacrificed at the end of the Kingship period, but then came back again and agin, until he didn't. He also allowed himself to be thrown into a Volcano again and again and kept coming back. So, he cheated, really.   

See Ya    

  Simon     Received on Fri 05 May 2006 - 11:44:43 EEST