[Glorantha] Re: Grandmother, a patriarchal concept?

In message <44ABAF50.5080008@blueyonder.co.uk> Orlanth Umathi writes:

>It depends on the social structure, if your family group is about group
>responsibility for parenthood, strong sibling and cousin role models and
>wide family structures then the framework is potentially a more
>nurturing one. Its not a simple female = nurture.

The Heortlings of Sartar also share responsibility for children among the women of the stead and while not a strict patriarchy they certainly aren't a matriarchy.

>I am trying to pull away from our current ideas on sex roles, not
>reinforce them, but the role of a family is partly to nurture, if
>a wide number of people are focused on a group responsibility of
>family care that in my view is a greater emphasis on nurturing
>(for better or worse).

I'm all for using a different models for families in different parts of Glorantha and different male and female roles. The biggest constraint on that isn't nurture however, it's the physical activities of pregnancy and breast feeding. These are incompatable with much of the heavy work of farming. So however Esrolia is structured the men will be doing most of the outdoor work.

>But will they actually place emphasis on this direct form of ancestry?
>This is my whole point, different family build = different concept of
>family. Mother is not necessarily the strongest bond in a maternal
>group. If your Aunt is older than your mother (or possibly has had
>children first, depending on outlook) she may be the one who instils
>discipline or makes decisions on your behalf.

I've never heard of a society which regards the aunt/niece relationship as stronger than mother/daughter. An aunt may have more social authority which means she takes decisions but it doesn't superceed the mother/ daughter relationship.

>Sure she is still your gran's daughter, but your gran's sister in turn
>may be the head of the group.
>
>Maternal ancestry is not just a mirror of paternal ancestry. You might
>quote your lineage as:
>
>I am Ria
>Daughter of Glenda
>Niece of Glenna
>Who's Aunt is Helen the Green, Matriarch of our Clan.

Except that if Glenda and Glenna are sisters then Helen is also Glenda's aunt and Ria's Great Aunt. So why does Glenna get a mention at all as she isn't an ancestor? Or do you mean that Glenna is Glenda's aunt? In which case Helen is Ria's Great, Great Aunt and four generations are alive at the same time. Not that it's any different from someone describing their relationship to the clan chief in a society which works on sons and brothers.

>In this structure your brother, sisters and cousins have a roughly
>equal standing, and so, I propose, would an adopted child.

A child formally adopted into the family quite possibly but who's going to formally adopt a foundling of vague parentage?

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/