[Glorantha] Re: Debaday

Keith (Labrygon_at_aol.com)

>> Was he a king of Gorgers?

> I don't know anything about Debaday but am very interested in Gorgers and
> whatever it is that happens where they live.

I've been trying to explore where that sculpture magic (with human sacrifice) may have come from.

My working assumption is that the Thinobutans started out as nice people who became the fodder-slaves for demonic overlords who introduced the combination of blood sacrifices and sculpture magic. Sculpture magic alone is not too different from early Pelorian painting magics as portrayed in the Entekosiad - an idolic representation gets awakened through dance, song and ecstasy (through these activities, in case of doubt helped by incense or drink).

When the Thinobutans were conquered and enslaved, their conquerors may well have directed them to create sculptures for their purposes, and empower them by (human) sacrifices rather than pretty dances.

>From the Kimos descriptions in Gloranthan Bestiary, Elder Secrets and the
slightly truncated reprint in Glorantha: Introduction to the Hero Wars we know that both the Kimotans and the Gorgers practice the sculpture magic.

The sources I mentioned suggest strongly that the Gorgers are reckoned to be Antigods (or servants of Antigods).

While this can mean a demonic origin like for the Andins (which I admit is a very likely hypothesis for the Gorgers as well), Vithelan myth classifies the Dozaki Uz just the same way.

Ok, the Uz _are_ demon spawn from hell, but they are people, too. Lots of non-Vithelan entities are classified as antigods. Sedenya, Orlanth and Tolat (nowadays better known as Shargash) qualify for sure, and their demonic nature is relative.

Looking at the Outrigger People myths (including the non-outrigger Kimotians here), the Gorgers arrived as a second wave of demons, after the first wave (during the First Torrential War) had been fought off.

(Come to think of it, the first wave of demons might even have been Moorgarki's Hot Trolls wandering through.)

I am a bit puzzled about the specific memory of an island (coral reef etc) in a region that should have been yellow elf forest before the First Torrential War, and probably afterwards as well.

The Sharzu and Thinobutu myths quite specifically remember the Artmali, up to elevating Jarkartu the Indigo Conqueror to one of the two enemy gods of Sharzu. (The blue-skinned sailors earlier needn't have been from Jarkartu's period. The Calming Fleet of the Artmali was active before, and other blue-skinned slavers are possible - Waertagi or Vadeli, for instance.)

I rejected the idea that the people of Fozerantu could have been Artmali from around the First landing. Unless the Doraddi myths of their interaction with the earliest Artmali are very naive, the Artmali were not in the mental condition to oppress a subject people before their encounters with Qualyorni, Oabil and Desero. Given their powers over the tides, some might have followed and kept that region dry, though.

The second onslaught of demons makes the Thinobutu ancestors the slaves of Debaday (according to the Eastern myth), who then harrassed the not-drowned parts of the Eastern Continent with his pirates. The Kimotans specify the Gorgers as enemies. The Sharzu myths specify priests from Shekdurba who choose the sacrificial victims.

The Doraddi appear to have a weak memory of Duravan - they call the demon land "Durba" rather than Fozeranto. Quite possibly the human slaves called it that way too - Missing Land mentions "Va" as the land of origin for the Flanchites, who arrived in the Dawn Age.

The Outrigger event could even be historical - Fozeranto was destroyed by Jesolo and the Golden Fleet during the time of the First Council. Received on Tue 08 Aug 2006 - 21:34:24 EEST