YGWV
> From: Graham Robinson <graham@albionsoft.com>
and others engage in debate concerning
> Subject: Re: [Glorantha] Re: Changing (or not) reality via heroquests
into which I must dip myown oar.
>> "Simon Hibbs" writes:
>> The issue is, can
>> you just 'make up' a convenient religious 'truth' such as Seddenya
>> and make it so through heroquesting?
I will say the clear answer is NO.
> If not, how do you explain something as convenient as Orlanth Dragonfriend?
By citing the truth that every thing contains its opposite.
> Let alone the God Learners proving that all worlds are one world?
The GL were citing a "higher truth," that is, a mystical reality. They wer enot wrong in this truth,but they were wrong in applying it to non-mystical reality.
> From: donald_at_grove.demon.co.uk (Donald R. Oddy)
contines, expanding Simons' quoe:
>> I don't think you can. I don't think 'making things up'
>> like this is even possible in the Hero Wars period.
The Gods Worlds and other Otherworlds are not the products of human minds. They exist in their own right.
>> Yes you can change the
>> world through heroquesting during the Hero Wars, but you have to work with
>> what's there on the Heroplane, Godplane, etc.
I agree. And note too that no one knows everything that is contained in those immortal worlds.
> I'd say it is theorectically possible to create a complete truth but
> in practice so impossibly difficult it doesn't happen. That's because
> you have to make the truth consistant with what already exists on
> the Godplane.
Donald scores a BIG point with this observation. And I'll just add that successive failures have not yet convinced the mortals of their inability to do this.
> Since no mortal can fully understand a god they can't
> create a complete one. What is far easier is to take an existing one
> and add the attributes you require.
I don't htink one can simply "add attributes" to it. They mus be there already, and so pereviously unknown attriburtes can be discovered, but not added.
> So Seddenya was created by adding
> the defeat Carmenians ability to an existing goddess. Even then there
> were other abilities added and changed due to the assumptions made by
> the Seven Mothers.
I do not agree with this. Sedenya existed before the Seven Mothers,
and before she rose to the skies.
Her power is of reflection and cyclicism, and she comes and goes into
the world BECAUSE of that power.
> From: Benedict Adamson <badamson_at_nildram.co.uk>
> Would you agree that you can bend, shape and join what is present? And
continues
> that it is harder the more you must bend, shape and join?
>
> The cynical explanation for Sedenya (who, as you remind us, provides no
> magic and therefore, by one operational definition, does not exist at
> all)
But she does provide magic through her manifestations. High Orlanth could be said to "provide no magic" by the same reasoning, but no one thinks that.
> is that she has been cobbled together by claiming a set of actually
> unrelated goddesses were all avatars. I suggest that claiming that some
> goddesses are avatars is a relatively easy change (compared to creating
> Nysalor or swapping two gods, for example): there is very little bending
> and shaping because the change requires no substantial alterations to
> existing mythologies, and the joins are all at the existing terminals
> (the births and deaths of the component goddesses).
I will contest that there was no cobbling, and no bending of others to conform with anything. It was and is a process of discovery.
> And you don't even need a Heroquest to make up a religious 'truth' that
> seems convincing to those desperate to believe; I assume that the
> pyramid scam cults do not require them.
It is worth while to stress the amount of actual scamming that could go on tofool people who follow but do not have the capability or attitude to explore for themselves. Such activity would account for many people within Glorantha to consider that Sedenya as a scam herself. But she isn't.
Issaries, Inc.
c/o Greg Stafford
1942 Channing Ave, #204
Berkeley, CA 94704 USA
Received on Tue 15 Aug 2006 - 17:32:13 EEST
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