[Glorantha] Gods and antigods

>From: Greg Stafford <greg_at_glorantha.com>
>Subject: [Glorantha] Antigods and Gods
>To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>Message-ID: <20060819191016.uliu0vljrd444wss@www.glorantha.com>
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>YGWV
>
> > From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_quicksilver.net.nz>
>opens the door to a fascinating, complex and difficult subject
>
>Joerg:
> >> > In Eastern mythology, the Sea always seems to be working
> >> > hand in hand with the antigods - I think there's some dark
> >> > source in their mythology which the antigods find easy to
> >> > attune to.
>
>Nils:
> >> I think most of the sea gods are actually considered to be
> >> antigods. E.g. Venperesha is the antigoddess of sea animals.
>
>Peter:
> > That's a subjective and polemical classification (one readily
> > made by the Vithelans) but it doesn't address Joerg's
> > problem.
>
>The Vithelan classification of gods and antigods is actually pretty
>clear cut, though not stated out clearly in the UW.

> > The sea gods are not part of the Vithelan pantheon
> > but have their own mythology and connection with
> > the Transcendent. As a result, they are no more
> > antigods than the Orlanthi are.

>But the Orlanthi are, in fact, antigods.

The Vithelans may call the Orlanthi antigods but that doesn't make them antigods anymore than the Kralori calling the Orlanthi devils. Properly applied, the term antigod should be used only for entities of Vithelan mythology (ie Sekever, Oorsu Sara etc) whereas usage against entities outside Vithela is little more than name-calling.

> > Yet despite this, in the
> > conflicts that the Sea Gods have with the Vithelans, they
> > end up taking the side of the Antigods. The question
> > was then why?

>The answer to that is: it?s their nature.
>It is their nature to BE gods of the world. They are integral to
>Glorantha?s nature?indeed, they are Nature itself. As such they can be
>worshipped and they will return powers to their worshippers. That is
>their nature.

However the Vithelan antigods include deities such as Oorsu Sara, Avanapdur, Herespur and other horrific deities whom most gloranthans would consider to be evil (if they met them) and comparable really only to Thed and other bad gods. Saying that they are gods of nature comparable to Orlanth verges on insanity on the part of the Vithelan monks.

>But the nature of the gods is to raise the consciousness of the
>worshippers. Their worship is designed to activate a sense of
>ascending knowledge and intimacy with the Unknown, and to lead the
>worshipper towards higher levels of consciousness.

Which is true for the Orlanthi gods and not true for the Vithelan antigods.

>Yes, some of the Vithelan gods have connections with Immanent
>reality?Nature. But the nature of their worship is different from that
>of the antigods, which do not have that intent.

I presume the gods mentioned here are the Parondpara like Hobimarong and Lumavoxoran of Haragala. Orlanth has a far stronger connection to the Transcendent than the Parondpara ever will so why does he get antigod status and the Parondpara don't?

>Yes, some of the antigods have a connection with the
>Transcendent, but the nature of their worship does not
>compel or tempt the normal worshipper towards higher
>consciousness.

Which is a criticism of the nature of their worship rather than their actual status as such. As for compelling or tempting the normal worshipper towards higher consciousness, I could argue that:

1. The Vithelans are just as prone to worshipping the antigods as they are to worshipping the gods so their average level of consciousness is the same as other gloranthans.
2. The proportion of Vithelans that directly study the ultimate is seems just about the same as similar minded gloranthans elsewhere (Dayzatar, Tarumathi Rashoranics, Irevnsavali and so forth).

--Peter Metcalfe Received on Mon 21 Aug 2006 - 09:25:43 EEST