[Glorantha] Re: Sartarite Cavalry is Good cavalry

In message <009a01c6db76$467a93a0$6406a8c0@zorro> "Roderick and Ellen Robertson" writes:

>Donald says:
>> Perhaps better described as the *only* light-medium cavalry in the
>> English Civil War. A war in which cavalry generally made little
>> contribution to the battles because they used to charge the
>> enemy cavalry with the winners going on to loot the baggage train.
>
>It kept the hotheads out of the way. (You overstate the lack of purpose of
>ECW cavalry, especially later in the war, when the Roundhead cavalry was
>rather disciplined and didn't go haring off ala Rupert).

The New Model Army were the exception, all eleven regiments of their cavalry.

>Magic does not a cavalryman make (or a culture for that matter).

No, but it's a very good indication of what is important to a culture. If all warriors routinely fight from horseback I'd expect to see some reference to that in the source books. Also I've just spotted on pg 21 of BA the paragraph Clan Patrol "The patrol is normally mounted on horses of the sered breed (see Anaxial's Roster, pg49) but will usually dismount to fight." That's a clear description of mounted infantry.

>And the
>fact that we didn't write a "Orlanth the Rider" keyword should not be
>taken to indicate that there *isn't* such a subcult.

Peter has pointed out Ulanin the rider in GT but even that subcult doesn't seem to have been worshipped in all tribes.

>Sure, only Elmal has "Rider" magic, but that doesn't mean that only
>Elmali ride. Does hunting being restricted to Odayla/Ormalayla mean
>that no-one else hunts? Only Orstan the Carpenter worshippers build
>houses? Elmali are just *better* at it than the rest of the Heortlings,
>that's all.
>
>Remember that feats can be cast on others, so if even if there is
>only a Beren "chaplain" in the unit they could still get benefit
>from the magic.

Except that in Orlanthi mythology Elmal is guardian of the stead who remains behind when the warband goes off to fight. Given that most Elmali are members of Elmali clans there must be many Sartarite clans with no Elmali never mind one to go with the warband as well as one to stay at home.

>> >Well, YGMV. Sartarite cavalry is attested in the one bit of "hard"
>> >military history (WBRM) that we have.
>>
>> The trouble with that is the proportions. It would mean that every
>> member of every warband was cavalry and all the infantry are
>
>It's quite possible for that to be true. All Warriors know how to
>Ride according to the keyword (yes, I helped write that keyword, and
>I made sure it was there). If the chief says "you guys ride over there
>and attack them", then the Sartarites (as I envision them) have no
>problem with it. No: "Uh, chief, are you sure you don't want us to
>dismount first?"

Ability to ride does not equate to ability to fight from horseback never mind acting as cavalry. At best "fight from horseback" would be the lowest of "ride" and "fight". And some Orlanthi weapons, such as slings, would be very iffy to use from horseback.

>> fyrdmen. Furthermore only an average of 40% of the available fyrd
>> are represented. That's why I go with the idea that the Sartarite
>
>If the fyrd is going to be called out, the warband is *already* out.
>If (in WBRM/DP) the proportion of Cavalry to Foot is heavily weighted
>in favor of Cavalry, and only 40% pof the fyrd is represented, then
>figure the entire muster of Sartar would be those 6 "Militia Cavalry"
>units, and 15-16 "Militia foot" units, instead of the 6 and 6 that
>the counter mix actually gives you.

It's 8 and 8 in WBRM, although that does include one of each which is a Tarsh unit. Perhaps that's one of the changes in DP. I wouldn't expect all the fyrds to be available but I'd thought it would be higher than 40%.

>> militia cavalry are really mounted infantry and some even have
>> alternative means of rapid movement. That doesn't mean they can't
>> charge an enemy just that it isn't their primary fighting style.
>
>Well, as is said, YGMV. In *my* Sartar, Heortling warriors are as
>good on horseback as they are on foot, and quite happy to charge the
>enemy as a primary function. Maybe they aren't as good as "native
>horsemen" like the Pol Joni or Char Un or Grazers, that's fine with
>me; I'm not saying they should be that good. But the counters of WBRM
>do indicate that they are better than the Tarshite "professional"
>Cavalry, and on a par with the Lunar Cavalry Corps mid-class units.

They are better than the Furthest Horse but equal to the Furthest Veterans. I see the former as a militia cavalry (TiF shows them as part timers). The superiority of the Sartarites in combat and movement reflects the commitment of full time warriors in comparison to part-time but probably more disciplined troops. Even so I reckon in a straight charge the Tarshite lancers would win, it's just that the Sartarites would avoid that situtaion. Say luring the Tarshites into a charge against part of them while the rest of the warband snuck round the flank.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/