[Glorantha] Re: Sartarite Cavalry

In message <64889.84.144.240.143.1158837324.squirrel@webmail.toppoint.de> "Joerg Baumgartner" writes:

>Well, a unit entirely composed of Beren initiates would be expected to
>excel on Grazer scale, but I doubt such a Sartarite unit exists on Dragon
>Pass boardgame scale. It becomes different when not the individual cultic
>initiation but the warband guardian has the horse riding blessings, and
>IMO that's how mounted warbands operate.

No one has suggested entire warbands or units of either Beren or Ulanin initiates. Just sufficent initiates to provide continuity of horse training and horse related magic at clan level. The sources indicate this doesn't exist. Bear in mind that Beren initiates must come out of the one in seven men who don't follow Orlanth.

I'm amazed you are suggesting that even an Orlanthi all clan warbands have guardians giving horse riding blessings. Some will certainly but I'm sure they aren't even a majority as there are loads of different blessings that a guardian could provide and few will provide more than one or two.

>> Ability to ride does not equate to ability to fight from horseback
>> never mind acting as cavalry. At best "fight from horseback" would
>> be the lowest of "ride" and "fight".
>
>Probably yes, but will depend as strongly on the horse, too. The
>less effort has to be spent on the horse riding against a foe, the
>more effort can be put into hitting that foe at high speed.

Which involves training the horse to act against its natural instincts. These Beren/Ulanin initiates are going to be very busy.

>> And some Orlanthi weapons, such
>> as slings, would be very iffy to use from horseback.
>
>>From a moving horse - yes. So expect a mounted Hedkoranthi to slow
>down, sling a few thunderstones from useful distance, and then speed
>up to join up with his non-skirmishing fellows in the band.

Assuming the horse was trained to accept the sound of slingshot buzzing round near it but out of sight. Of course if the rest of the warband has charged the Hedkoranthi will still arrive at the end of the fight.

>In case of a greater war, the fyrd is assembled, and volunteers or
>delegates join the royal warbands while the rest returns to their usual
>role as emergency force. Talking about the fyrd as in clan fyrd will be
>misleading.
>
>Instead, we are faced with the city militia (assuming that the royal
>warbands use the cities as focus for mustering). Lots of volunteer
>part-time warriors join up with the core of professionals which are
>present in each unit (as sub-leaders).

This sounds far too much like a regular army organisation. Why on Glorantha should Orlanthi volunteers fight under a sub-leader they've never met when they've their own clan leaders who can do the job?

>Another important consideration: the Tarshite forces in DP/WB&RM are
>post-Dragonrise forces, minus the Fazzurites (Cavalry Corps quality
>troops).

DP/WBRM is supposed to cover the whole of the Hero Wars. It's not clear how long that is but I get the impression of decades at least. Plenty of time for Tarsh to rebuild their few professional units. TiF lists for the period 1610-1630 only a regiment of Huscarls, two of light infantry and two of cataphracts. All the other regiments are mostly part-timers with a cadre of full-timers. I suspect after the Dragonrise Tarsh is desperately trying to rebuild their forces to defend the cities.

>The occupations in "Thunder Rebels" are focussed on clansmen. IMO
>the "Cavalry Soldier" equivalent in Sartar is an advanced occupation,
>and implies leaving the clan behind (joining a king's warband, or
>similar) for considerable time spans. Since the Lunar occupation,
>only on the tribal level and no longer on city confederation or
>principality level. Prior to the occupation, the keyword may have
>been more accessible...

The trouble with this interpretation is the numbers involved. The seven "cavalry" counters in WBRM represent most if not all the full time warriors that the population of Sartar could support. Yet we know that most full time warriors are part of clan warbands.

>> All of this may contradict WBRM, but I think we may just have to accept
>> that the conception of Sartarite society has changed since it was
>> published.
>
>Sartarite history still has those cavalry moments in King of Sartar,
>and the one or two Orlanth battle myths in that book have Orlanth
>and his followers charging into battle, too.

There are plenty of historical cases of mounted infantry charging into battle. There's even a case of horse artillery doing so! I had a quick look though KoS but couldn't find any mention of Sartarite cavalry and I don't recall any.

>> Which is not to say that Sartarite warriors donīt fight on horseback - I
>> just doubt that they do so in anything that could be interpreted in any
>> but the loosest way as a "cavalry regiment."
>
>One of the first implications of the Lunar occupation was to disband all
>those regimental structures. I suspect that many standards of the city
>militias are hidden away, along with a barely tended guardian.

If these city militias exist other than as a way of representing the tribal fyrds in the boardgame I don't see them organised as regimental structures with officers and standards. At best they will be ad-hoc groupings of tribal fyrds and warbands.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/