[Glorantha] Re: Sartar Military History

A long post from Joerg Baumgartner:   

  >There is no prohibition against individual Sartarite warrior clansmen
>(part-time or professional) to be part of other forces. In fact, having
>friendly relationships to warriors outside one's own clan helps the clan
>to call in support in times of need.
   

  In my opinion, one of the things that Sartar did, and his descendants continued to do, was to weaken Clan/Tribal ties. Sartar is defined by its cities, as Joerg points out later on. Thise cities are the result of confederations of tribes. Had the kingdom of Sartar carried on for another couple of centuries, the clans would have been relegated in importance.    

  One of the most interesting thing about Sartar is that it has changed the makeup and organisation of the clans. In fact, I am surprised that people talk about Heortling this and Heortling that, when Sartar has changed Heortling culture to be something else.    

  In fact, where are Heortlings? Sartar has tribal confederations in the cities and clans/tribes in the hills. The Holy Country has had the Pharoah messing about with Heortling culture for several centuries and has changed the way they work. The Lunar Empire has changed the face of these tribes in Tarsh, the other Provinces and the rest of the Empire. Traditional Heortlings might still be around in Talastar and surrounding areas, but they are fast being Lunarised. So, I think you'd be hard pushed to find any country that has Traditional Heortlings around in any great number.        

  >>>IMO the princes of Sartar mostly had the knack (or inherited magic) to


>>>instill an esprit-de-corps for their militia. When the Principality of


>>>Sartar went to war, it was under the banners (or whatever) of the Prince.

>>>Clan leaders or tribal kings become less prominent in foreign affairs

>>>(e.g. the sack of Bagnot) after the princes take over. Those that get

  As part of declanning the tribes, Sartar would have tried to put together nationwide or citywide organisations, so that he couldn't be held to ransom by tribal leaders negotiating whether to suport him in battle or to stay away. So, later on the Household of Death is a non-clan based organisation that supports the Prince/King. I would suspect that there were others over the years.   

>Anyway, my point of this exercise: Sartarite princes led sizeable armies
>outside of their lands. Any kind of "fyrd" under the definition in Thunder
>Rebels would not have been involved. Instead, they must have used some
>form of mobilisation of forces. Members of clan warbands must have been
>involved, but I'd like to see the clan that sent its entire warband -
>great plunder opportunities...
>
  >So, in cases of "national levies", a clan would send part of their
>warband, and keep part of it at home.

A warband would not like to have been split. Their tactics depend on every man knowing his place, if half of them were away, the warband would be less effective. Where a clan has several warbands, one might have gone and one stayed behind. In fact, I reckon only the smallest of clans would have a single warband. Others would have at least two, probably more. Tribal armies would have been made up of warbands from the clans, fighting together under their respective commanders.   

>The same would be true for meetings of the city confederation. The clans
>would send a good number (but not all) of their warband to the "fair and
>maneuvers" event, along with traders, religious people (especially the
>minority cults), and people out to enjoy others.

Each tribe in the confederation would have to send a number of troops to the city. If they stayed there, they would become urbanised and would tend to make up the core of the city forces. The longer they stayed, the less clan loyalties they would have.

>What we get are essentially irregular squads who bring their own squad
>leaders. The squad leaders give a pledge to follow the unit leader, who
>will give a reciprocal pledge to use the "squad" fairly and justly.

  So, a number os smaller warbands joining together to make a larger warband, in this case the City Defence.

>> I don't see Argrath having the authority
>> to get warriors taken out of their warbands and transferred to
>> separate units. He will have a personal following, which I can
>> well imagine is cavalry, but those are individual warriors
>> pledged to him personally. Even if Argrath does this, those
>> warriors are mounted infantry (per BA) and Argrath isn't going
>> to be able to retrain them as cavalry easily or quickly.
>
>The "Free Army" is supposed to be a conglomerate of hero bands - many of
>these Sartarite exiles after 1613.

  As Prince of Sartar, leter King of Sartar/Dragon Pass, Argrath would have had exactly that right - to command the movement of troops. Maybe warbands would not have been split, but lesser warbands would have been moved.   

>As I said in my reply to Mark, those cities are what keeps me interested
>in Sartar. Barbarians I can get just about anywhere. Who would care about
>Balazar without the citadels?

Exactly. The cities are the heart of Sartar, not the barbarian clans in the hills.    

  See Ya   

Simon     Received on Wed 27 Sep 2006 - 18:23:29 EEST