[Glorantha] Re: Beware, beware...

In message <63853.84.144.188.207.1159345525.squirrel@webmail.toppoint.de> "Joerg Baumgartner" writes:

>Any argument "Counter X is more powerful than counter Y, so they must have
>better training, and don't you contradict that" is fallacious. This is
>digging for hints, not solid facts. And at that, Donald for instance
>appears concerned about the setting of his "now" (1620ies) game, while I
>try to find out what happened from Saronil to Salinarg, and how that might
>become relevant to Kallyr and other Argraths after 1625. Different
>intentions.

While I'm basing my arguments on the 1610/1620 information because that's what we have most of, I'm certainly interested in the longer timescale. It's just that I see that strong magic is needed to get different tribes co-operating. For Sartar to alter the basic social structure of the society (city centred rather than tribe centred) in 1492. Then the structure to fall back to tribe centred in 1602 and the magic to be rekindled about 1625 and go back to city centred very quickly seems unlikely.

>Now, what force could Jarolar mobilize? His personal bodyguards (Humakti
>and Telmori, about 100 each), and tribal hangers-on at Boldhome together
>could field about 400 warriors. Nearby tribes could be contacted for
>volunteers, but that would be mostly cross-country. Nearby cities, on the
>other hand, were conveniently within half a day's forced ride. If these
>cities had a drill to summon warriors for military emergencies, that would
>bring them nicely together so that one of Jarolar's companions could lead
>them to the prince.
>
>Gathering troops in Wilmskirk, Jonstown and Swenstown that way could
>produce about 500 warriors each, another 200-300 volunteers could be
>mustered in and around Boldhome (possibly reducing the other contingents,
>since the nearby tribes - Sambari, Kheldon and Culbrea - all belong to one
>of the other cities' confederations). If a message is sent to the Colymar
>and Lismelder, they could send volunteers to Runegate to be picked up
>there. Altogether, he might field 2500 mounted warriors which can make it
>just in time for Palashee's request.

Why would it be much more difficult to summon the tribes? Even if Sartar's roads had deliberately bypassed tribal centres in the 1490s those centres would have migrated to be near if not on the roads. In any case the map in the DP gazetteer shows clan level settlements on those roads.

>Anyway, this event might cement the need for organized musters across
>the principality. There might be a tradition for mounted and even foot
>reaction forces, mustered by the city confederations. There might be
>city militia warbands with traditions of battles fought for the princes.
>There might be banners or other insignia, and there might be guardians
>for those units. Until the principality is conquered.

Let's just think what happens to such forces when Sartar is conquered. The Lunars have two choices - disband them and provide troops to control and police the cities. Or purge them of suspect elements, provide officers and use them as garrisons/police. With the former you have a large number of at least partly trained fighters who are probably disgruntled. With the latter you don't have to provide garrisons who are going to spend most of their time keeping order.

However if the cities, and some towns, are mustering points for the tribal warbands and fyrds they melt back into the countryside on conquest and the Lunars have to deal with the tribal structure as the current publications indicate.

The other problem I have with city forces is what are they? If they are part-time militia they are going to be on a par with the Tarshite ones. If they are full time warriors then how are they supported in the numbers indicated. The 500 warriors you indicate as provided by the smaller cities is a heck of a large number for somewhere with a population of between 1,000 and 5,000. Indeed a city of a thousand wouldn't be able to raise more than 300 part-time militiamen.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/