[Glorantha] Re: Earth Tribe

On December 19, 2006 07:00 am, Jeff Richard wrote:

> Aha, now I understand what you are getting at. OK - terms like "Earth
> Tribe", "Storm Tribe", "Fire Tribe" or whatever is an Orlanthi
> conceit. Such terms are relevant to Orlanthi mythology - not to Dara
> Happan, Pelandan or other cultures (especially non-tribal cultures).

I think this was what was tripping me up. It's interesting to know that the non-Orlanthi Theleyans aren't necessarily thinking that way.

> This may change the importance of the
> gods or goddesses in terms of their relevance to the local worshipers
> but does not necessarily change the underlying mythology (in fact it
> rarely does).

And with an understanding of this conceit, it doesn't really have to.

> Esrolia is the "home" of several important Orlanthi goddesses -
> Ernalda (who the Esrolians believe lives at the Great Ernalda Temple),
> Asrelia-Ty Kora Tek (who lives at Necropolis) and Esrolia (who lives
> in Esrolia).

So does Esrolia just sort of "live" everywhere in Esrolia, or does she have a center?

> This ebbs and flows - for example, when Hendriking chiefs ruled much
> of coastal and northern Esrolia at the end of the Second Age and the
> beginning of the Third, Orlanth worship was just as important as it
> was in Hendrikingland. When the Grandmothers reestablished control
> over all of Esrolia, Orlanth worship was deemphasized again (not
> banned - just socially and politically deemphasized).

I am good with deemphasized.

> And that again brings me to the key difference between the Heortlings
> and the Esrolians - the Esrolian kinship groups are absolutely ruled
> by the Grandmothers. In
> Esrolian stories, the authority of the Grandmothers is occasionally
> challenged - but the Grandmothers always succeed in the end. In
> Heortling stories, the Grandmothers are always treacherous and
> manipulative villains (although in the most famous Sartarite romance -
> the Tragic Love of Sarotar and Arkillia - the Grandmother actually
> gets what's coming to her).

Now THAT is interesting. Echoes of the conflict that split Esrolia from the other Heortlings? Does that hold further to the North, where it is Orlanthi but not Heortling? Or is there less rancor there and you get Good and Bad Grandmothers who sometimes win and sometimes don't?

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Ian Cooper <ian_hammond_cooper_at_yahoo.co.uk>

> Orlanth has many aspects and sub-cults and I expect what we are really
> talking about here is an emphasis on certain parts of Orlanth over others
> at different times.

<Lots of good stuff snipped>

I think the particular cult selection will end up as a YGWV kind of deal, but the general principle certainly works for me.

> ------------------------------
> From: "Simon Hibbs" <simon.hibbs_at_gmail.com>

> Yes, but I doubt it would be very useful. He'd be the patron of worshippers
> going
> through initiation - and unformed god with incomplete powers that hasn't
> realised
> his destiny.

Hmmm. I don't think I'd necessarily look at it that way in my game. After all, early adventuring Orlanth isn't portrayed that way. It is an interesting view, though.

> ------------------------------

> From: "Roderick Robertson" <rjremr_at_sierratel.com>

> >From a chat with Greg many moons ago (about the time HW was being written
> > by
>
> Robin),
> the "Creation Sequence" is Dark -> Water -> Earth -> Sky -> Air. Only the
> last three have "identity" (and thus can rebel, marry, love or hate), as
> the Green (Earth) Age is when the formless became seperated.

Huh. So "The Great Darkness" doesn't count as Dark.

> (Yes, this sequence is different than the "Elemental Wheel" of which
> element beats which. But there is a diagram that shows the interactions of
> the two - it looks like a pentagram)

I've often held that the elemental wheel is portrayed as a pentagram in the west. You use arrows to show which beats which. You get the same run, but laid out in a different pattern. (And then it becomes interesting which you think of as the "top" of the pentagram)

> ------------------------------
> From: donald_at_grove.demon.co.uk (Donald R. Oddy)

> I'm not sure Maran worshippers rule any clans or tribes in Tarsh. The
> cult strikes me as more of a theocratic ruler of the Shaker Temple
> than a chieftain or king. I can imagine Ernalda rules more often than
> Orlanth though - she knows how to placitate her sister.

Interesting point.

> >From ILH1 many aren't even theistic. The Pelandan gods as described

Yeah, that is what I was talking about. ILH1 really made it different to me.

> Possibly Orendana is a subcult of Asrelia/Ty Kora Tek rather than Ernalda.

Interesting idea.

> Of course, I'd forgotten Genert was the major Earth Tribe god. It
> seems that the Earth Tribe was shattered by Genert's dismemberment.

Which always bugged me a bit, as it sounds a bit like "once the man was killed, the tribe fell apart".

> A lot may merely reflect the cultural view of their worshippers. So
> there is a tendency in central Genertala to regard women as members
> of the Earth Tribe and men as members of the Fire or Storm Tribes
> irrespective of parentage or temprament. So we get Mahome as a
> subcult of Ernalda and Vinga regarded as part of the Earth Tribe
> although she behaves more like a member of the Storm Tribe.

Is Vinga regarded as Earth Tribe? I always thought she was quite evidently Storm.

LC Received on Thu 21 Dec 2006 - 00:10:22 EET