2nd Age Illumination

From: Alex Ferguson (alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk)
Date: Thu 16 Feb 1995 - 22:35:19 EET

P. Metcalfe exhibits his world-famous Manuel the Spanish Waiter impersonation:

> Que?

> Que?

That's enough for now, Peter. We'll let you know.

Responding to:
> >my view that in the 2nd Age,
> >there's fewer people seeking Illumination, fewer people spreading it,
> >and more people attempting to suppress it, than in the other-mentioned
> >periods.

> Which is quite a different thing from saying the authorities were
> uniformly _hostile_ to Illumination during the second age which they
> weren't.

I didn't say _uniformly_ hostile. A varying, but net-hostile attitude will do fine. This is particularly true since Illumination is a much longer-term process than initiation into the typical religion, so its spread requires long-term tolerance (at least).

> They are called the Order of Illumination and they claim
> inspiration from Nysalor. It makes them illuminated in the
> _inquisitors_ eyes, does it not?

Perhaps, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are trying to become Illuminated, or if they are, that they're using the right method. So I reiterate, if it isn't a cult _of Illumination_ in some meaningful sense, it does nothing to show that loads of people in 2nd age Peloria were trying, by methods which would otherwise have worked, to reach illumination but were being thwarted.

> >> The change in the ease of achieving Illumination was due to the
> >> Red Goddess bringing speaking to Nysalor, IMO.

> >I don't think this is the case, since one does reach reach Illumination
> >via the Red Goddess's cult, or, apparently, any other specifically Lunar
> >cult.

> No, you misunderstand.

I do indeed not. Not only is it not necessary to worship the Goddess to get illumination, one _cannot_ become Illuminated within her cult. This would seem to require positing a mv, rather than a cp.

> She brought back a technique which other
> illuminates have since copied and made part of their philosophy.

And what evidence is there for this? Seems pretty deus ex world machine from here.

> Let us say before the Red Goddess came the
> standard questions were only worth half a percentage point each
> to achieving illumination.

Let's say it was worth 1% all along. This sort of factor-of-two difference is admittedly not too difficult to credit, were one so inclined, though it would not fully account for the different prevalences of Illumination (as the social acceptance view does, I feel), and it begs the question of what the going rate was in the Golden Empire. Presumably no less, given its spread then; and one can't really explain why it would have dropped by the same sort of device.

Carefully measuring the Heat/Light quotient, Alex.

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 01:50:30 EEST