Malkioni and illumination

From: Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty (
Date: Fri 17 Feb 1995 - 01:53:04 EET

Alison Place:

Speculates about whether the Malkioni worshipped other gods in the distant past.

>It would be interesting
>to know if the Malkioni have the same split. By now, I suspect not, as they
>have a fully developed monotheism. Maybe before the Sun died?

I suspect before the Ice Age came, the Ancestors of the Malkioni had your average celestial court of powers and elements with Ehilm as the actual Sun God and Emperor. Ehilm had a fight going with Worlath at the time Malkion recieved his visitation. Orthodox Malkioni say Malkion cast out the False Gods but I wonder it powerhungry Zzabur had engineered the deposition of the false gods.

I also have a weaker theory about the Vadeli and the Kingdom of Logic which downplays Malkion's role dramatically. I do have some evidence for this (ie the number 8 figures in Malkioni society, why?) but I'll probably write it up as Vadeli propoganda seeing how well the Kralori one went down.

Alex Fitzfergus:

Over the issue of the attitude of the Second Age Dara Happan Illumination debate, Alex starts the post with a couple of insults and quibbles before recanting with:

>A varying, but net-hostile attitude will do fine.

Agreed. I believe however that this is only a major cause of the relative scarcity of illumination in Second Age Dara Happa.

>> They are called the Order of Illumination and they claim
>> inspiration from Nysalor. It makes them illuminated in the
>> _inquisitors_ eyes, does it not?

>Perhaps, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are trying to become
>Illuminated, or if they are, that they're using the right method.

Which is precisely the point I was trying to make. The whole question was whether the second age emperors persecuted illuminanti cults and I cited this one as evidence as sometimes they didn't. It was percieved as being an illuminated cult and the Emperors were supportive of this order. The _fact_ whether or not the order was illuminated is immaterial to the argument. Personally I don't know how well they practiced or achieved illumination.

>So I reiterate, if it isn't a cult _of Illumination_ in some meaningful
>sense, it does nothing to show that loads of people in 2nd age Peloria
>were trying, by methods which would otherwise have worked, to reach
>illumination but were being thwarted.

This whole nitpick arises out of the fact that I said it was a Nyslorean Cult. I meant by this that it tries to recover the secrets that Nysalor had preached (except for his 'Gods are Men'). Illumination is only one teaching that survived. the relationship between Illumination and Nysalor is pretty much like the relation between Dialetic Materialism and the Soviet Union. The Order wanted Illumination, they viewed it as a Good Thing. I say that what they were struggling to improve was the art of Riddling.

>> >> The change in the ease of achieving Illumination was due to the
>> >> Red Goddess bringing speaking to Nysalor, IMO.

>Not only is it not necessary to worship the Goddess
>to get illumination, one _cannot_ become Illuminated within her cult.
>This would seem to require positing a mv, rather than a cp.

Gah! You're too busy seeing illumination in CoT terms as a cult! All Lunars are 'lay members' in the Cult of the Red Goddess, right? Illumination is about by Illumined Riddlers. A riddler can become a member of any cult. If one was illumined by an initate of the Red Moon (who are themselves illumined) one has become illuminated within the cult of the Red Goddess? Comprendez-vous?

>> She brought back a technique which other
>> illuminates have since copied and made part of their philosophy.

>And what evidence is there for this? Seems pretty deus ex world machine
>from here.

From what I've heard, the Red Goddess's Heroquest. She spoke with Nysalor, passed his test and gained Rashorana as a servant.

>Carefully measuring the Heat/Light quotient,

Poor lad. Now that Joerg's started agreeing with him, he's trying to generate heat so that he doesn't become illumined ;)

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