the hero bit...

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Mon 01 May 1995 - 04:30:39 EEST

Sandy Petersen:

> Arkat. Sheng Seleris, Hon-Eel, Jar-Eel, Harrek

Sheng Seleris is a Superhero? *gulp*. The Red Emperor/Takenegi managed three duels with him and dissappeared only on the third one. So either Takenegi is a superhero or Sheng became a superhero after Takenegi lost the third duel.

>I've heard arguments that Hon Hoolbiktu may have been a
>superhero, and maybe he was. Any other takers?

Garangordos the Cruel, Enslaver of Fonrit?

Graeme Lindsell:

SP> Greg and I (personal discussion) agree that in general heroes SP>are exceedingly rare in Glorantha.

> My problem with this is "How do you define a hero"?

The basic definition is Greg's unification of the Microcosm, Mesocosm and Macrocosm (hereth endth the Godlearner grab). In Glorantha this is recognised by 'Meeting with the Gods' and gaining a personal star (Theist PoV anyway). Note this is not achieved by Argrath until he undertakes the Lightbringers Quest which is sometime _after_ the wars of Dragon Pass. IMO in DP, Argrath is not a hero but is of Heroic stature. He becomes one much later. This gives a more restrictive list of heros. I don't think that if you give a cult spell like Gerak Kag and 'Jumping' for Kyger Litor, you are automatically a hero by the God Learner definition. Cult hero (big C small h) is a more accurate definition, IMO.

The basic level of hero seems to be slightly higher than Argrath but lower than Harrek like the Inhuman King. It's interesting to note that virtually no heroes are found among the West who are into Saints and I don't think the correspondance is one-on-one.

Dara Happa is stated not to have practiced heroquesting. Despite this I think they were quite capable of producing people of Heroic Statue quite easily. What they do is that by their Priestly Magic, they incarnate various gods into selected state officials (such as Anitirius is incarnated into the Emperor). The lunars continue this practice to some degree and also experiment with Heroquesting.

On the subject of Lunar Heros, one of the foes Argrath meets with are the Seven Granddaughters of the Red Moon. I can recall only five (Jar-eel, Hon-eel, Hwarin Dalthippa, Yara Aranis, Inadana Daughtersdotter) and one (Yara) is more like a monster than a hero. Anybody know the names of the other two?

Non-definitive list of Definite Heros (as opposed to those of Heroic Statue) and some Also Rans out of the People of Heroic Statue, I can recall off the Top of my head:

Aelwrin Beatpot: Not a hero. Butchering an entire Lunar Great Temple with a Potato Peeler does not a Hero make.

Argrath: Lightbringer.

Arkat: Achieved Hero status five times over.

Errinoru: Circumnavigated around the world and then sailed down Magasta's Ocean. Hero.

Garangordos the Cruel: Not a Hero (even though I said that he was a candidate for fitting Sandy's inferred definition of a superhero). It seems he was assasinated before he could become a Hero.

Gunda the Guilty: Not a hero.

Inhuman King: Not a hero. He doesn't see the need to become one, as he's already a dragon incarnated in a lesser form to perpetuate the species.

Harmast Barefoot: Lightbringer. Hero.

Harrek: I'm thinking he made his heroic quest by sailing down Magasta's Pool after he completed the circumnavigation. There is a gap of three years in his chronology.

Hon-eel: Met with Yelm and bore the two twins Twilight and Noonlight.

Ironhoof: Hero. His quest for the Lady of the Wild.

Jar-Eel: Hero.

Red Emperor: I think the Emperors of Dara Happa and the Lunar Emperors achieve their heroic stature by the fact that they incarnate Antirius as one of their titles is the Bearer of Antirius. Takenegi was the strongest seen for a while because he could fuse the Egi with his Antirius portion, but now the Egi are dead so....

Sheng Seleris: Becomes a hero quite late in his Dance Across Peloria. Is somehow tricked by the Carmanians.

Twins of Tarsh: Had their chance and blew it.

PM>other nasties mentioned in the Argrath Saga, ie they are all masses of PM>spirits not one huge spirit that has crimson bats for breakfast.

> But according to DP one or two units could have the Bat for breakfast,
>couldn't they, whereas the given rules give huge groups of spirits no
>chance against the bat?

I deal with this by saying that the increased magical activity caused by massed spirits severs the link of the Bat with the Void and so causes its destruction. The Hydra of Dragon Pass is also mentioned in Elder Secrets and its statistics don't indicate any vunerability to spirit combat.


>>I've heard arguments that Hon Hoolbiktu may have been a superhero,

>Who's he?

An Agimori hero who defeated the Six-legged Empire. I'm surprised Sandy says he's a superhero as the Six Legged Empire was decaying.

Nils on Aptanace:
>>>The only thing really remembered about Aptanace is his name.

>>Plus a few standard teachings of which the surviving documents do not
>>exist but have come down to us, second and third-hand.

>Sounds fair. Btw, the written sources must be second hand or later since
>there was no writing when Aptanace was around (IMO).

A very good point. Ok, the main records of Aptanace come from stories about his life which are trustworthy as Homer recalling the tales of Troy.

[Wicked ministers:]

>OK, what about a system where there is a single emperor at the top, who
>is supposed to take the advice of a council, which of course strong-
>willed autocrats like Shavaya and Daruda had no wish at all to do?

This is good, in light of the fact that Metsyla was the type who needed a council to help him run the place...

End of Glorantha Digest V1 #258

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