A couple of retractions...

From: Peter Metcalfe (P.Metcalfe@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz)
Date: Wed 03 May 1995 - 07:15:35 EEST

Harald Smith:

On how to become a Hero.

> I would guess that the individual has had to go through
> a transformative experience (probably confronting their own death in
> some fashion--underworld trek, belly of the whale/monster, etc.).

I think to even pass onto the Hero plane, one has to confront their own death (cf the Beserkergang path in ToTRM#7). No, I think that to be a hero, one has to do something more than this.   

> I think one daughter is named Glamour. Yara, Hon-eel, and Jar-eel are
> the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Inspirations of Moonson respectively. Glamour is
> the 1st Inspiration--and although the writeup of this inspiration refers
> to a physical location, the ToTRM writeup suggests there is a goddess of
> the city. She would logically then be the first granddaughter.

But Hwarin is not an Inspiration of Moonson, isn't she? So we cannot assume Inspiration of Moonson = Major Lunar Heroine. Moreso in light of the fact that The Fourth Inspiration has very little connection with the original Moonson.  

> If you think of the granddaughters
> as representing the nurturers of the 7 Sacred Cities of Dara Happa,

The Seven Sacred Cities of the Lunar Empire are so called because there's seven of them. Nowadays with the revival of Dara Happan Philia under the New Masks/Dead Moon Emperors, if the Red Emperor were to undertake such a rite today, he would name 10 cities. Seven was chosen then because Seven was seen as the 'in' number.

I had said that IMO, Aelwrin Beatpot and Gunda the guilty, were not heroes in terms of my stringent criteria I had posted. Harald says we know too little of their career, to be sure. This is true, but I have a bias against best friends, sidekicks, catamites and what-have-you of ever having the inititive to become a hero. They rely on the inititive of others.

I said that Argrath was a Hero after he achieved the Lightbringers Quest. Harald writes:   

> Which Argrath? Like Arkat, I think there are several manifestations.
> Or several heroes whose stars all come together.

I only see one Argrath in the Order of Battle for Dragon Pass. Argrath White-bull _if_ he is a seperate figure would be at most a leader unit on the scale of Nomad Gods and Argrath of Pavis is not what I call a hero.  

Andrew Joelson:

I wrote:

>> It's interesting to note that
>> virtually no heroes are found among the West who are into Saints and I
>> don't think the correspondance is one-on-one.

Andrew corrects me:

>Genertela/Hero Wars (Orange Box) speaks of Prince Snodal as a Hero. It
>also lists Sir Meritan of Loskalm as a Hero, who will lead his people
>against the Kingdom of War.
> Also, Arkat started out in the far west......

I plead temperory insanity, m'lord. I should have said heroes are rare in the west. The God Learner Doom is said to have been marked by no great hero conflicts. Furthermore the God Learners do not have seemed to produce Heroes in any great number despite their expertise in heroquesting.

David Cheng:

David exposed my ignorance of Greg's theory of Teleos by not having the Relevations of Glaaki^H^H^H^H^Hreg on this matter. This is true. I had heard from Sandy, I think, (on this digest) that they are unable to reproduce without the aid of the other tribes whom they normally hate. This led me to an opposite idea on the foundations of Teleos society instead of what David has posted.

Nick Brooke:

In refuting Haralds Granddaughter <=> Sacred City thesis, he made the following mistake (not that it detracted from his refutation, mind you).

>I don't think so. During the Fourth Wane, Alkoth held out almost alone (with
>vital help from Sylila) against the nomads.

Held out? It was conquered twice by the nomads and the Sylilings had to send in fleets to kick the barbarians out.

Sandy Petersen:

>Peter Metcalfe
> Suggests Garangordos may have been a superhero. Could be,
>but I thought he was pre-time. No, wait. He was First Age, wasn't

Before 500 ST, IMO around the Sun Stop. I just have this image of the Fonritian Agimori fighting against the Jraktali Empire of Fonrit who have summoned up evil night magics so when the Sun goes down, the Agimori will be toast. But Garangordos calls upon the sun to stop so he can waste the cream of the Jraktali before the sun goes down. I apologise for the biblical origins of this, but I do feel that Fonritian religion is a mixture of polytheism (in guise of it's many gods and Montheism (Omapalm).

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