From: Peter Metcalfe (P.Metcalfe@student.canterbury.ac.nz)
Date: Mon 19 Jun 1995 - 07:02:53 EEST
Klaus O Kristainsen:
>When were the seven mothers deified? Before, at, or
>after Castle Blue?
CoP says that when their Goddess was deified, they had joined her.
>Have there ever been seven of them? The original conspiracy
>had six members. At some later time, the hapless victim
>they had murdered as part of their goddess constructing (or
>goddess resurecting) ritual was deified, and included in the
This is iffy. From what I have been told, Teelo's murder is not the case in the Lunar Book.
>Did that happen before or after one of the original
>six was destroyed at Castle blue? Was this done to bring the
>number back up to six?
Seven is pretty much the standard number. According to the Lunar Wane chronicle (which isn't in Wyrm Footprint?) Two Mothers were killed at the First Battle of Chaos by the Carmanians before the Red Goddess reappeared. As far as I can tell, the mothers are really guides and embodiments of the character of the Red Goddess's phase (innocence, war, truth etc) rather than independant gods in their own right.
>Seeing as how the God
>Learners didn't get along with the Brithini or the Waertagi I'd have
>thought they would have acted against Sog. Yet the Brithini seem to have
>kept their city of brass and we know the Waertagi dragonships were
>coming to Sog up to the time of the closing.
Sog City was founded pre-dawn to handle trade with some culture in Fronela (I once thought that this was them third eye blues but this has been subjected to a particularly nasty gregging - who eats worms BTW). It has never been composed solely of Brithini; even at the Dawn, most of the inhabitants were 'lesser logicals' (comparable to the human slaves worshippers of Mostal in Slon). When Hrestol was matyred at Sog City, it became a stronghold of Malkionism although the Brithini were still the rulers (RW parallel: Byzantines lording it over the backward germanics of Italy during Justinian's time).
Given that Nick has said the Talars of Sog City died after the end of the first age, I think that Sog was sacked by Varganthyr the Unconqerable Knight (allied with Nysalor) who managed to kill the Talar and most of the Horals. The function of the Dronars were largely provided by the Malkioni Sog City Poplace. The Zzaburi then create the Judges to keep order in the City and their control over large parts of the city and surrounding areas collapse. I don't think Brithos sent any new people over perhaps because Zzabur felt that since the demise of Nysalor, his control over Brithos was safe (Nysalorism had penetrated Brithos according to Cults of Terror) so that he could rebuild it in His Own Image. The Waertagi are visiting Sog City regularly at this time.
So the Street judges become de facto rulers of Sog. They are drawn from Akem and Loskalm which is now becoming important. (There's a nice timeline of Fronela in Codex #2, I don't have it with me so I'm only recalling general themes). From 700? to 720 ST, Loskalm was torn between dissent over the God Learner Cult of the Invisible God and the indigenous barbarian institution of the Magi (who speak with the Creator). The Invisible God Cult won out as Syranthir was cast into the Wilderness. At this time, the Waertagi realize the God Learners are becoming too big for their boots and so turn on them. They are destroyed in 718 ST and vanish from then on (the blues cityship before the closing is the only time they have been seen since in Fronlea).
This war would have spilled over into Sog City with Loskalmi Mailshirts and Syranthiring Bezantshirts duking it out in the streets. The Jugdes are powerless to intervene because they are also riven with the same debate over philosophy. (The street battles between the Brownshirts and the Communists in 1930's Germany is my model here). Eventually as Syranthir is expelled, his followers go with him rather than be subject to a pogrom conducted by victorious Loskalmi troops in 'Rest & Recreation' in Sog City.
Sog City from then is really a pawn of Loskalm. Eventually Loskalm is annexed by King Svagard into the Middle Sea Empire of the God Learners. Sog City although independant would have IMO largely gone over to the God Learners. It's not part of Loskalm but more of an Imperial Free City. The Emperor likes it that way so he can have one port in Fronela that's not controlled by his legate in Loskalm.
Trouble starts in the nineth century when Miglos proclaims his new creed of unity at the Fifth Council on Malkionism. As proof of its validity, he organizes a crusade against Zzabur and Brithos. The Brithini of Sog are untouched as they're pratically subject people as are those of Aronlanit who were also conquered by Seshnela. His crusade fails miserablely and rumblings begin about the current God learner teachings which explode into a full scale revolt.
Losklam is riven by religious war which too is to be found in Sog City. Street fighting now takes place between the Seshnelan God Learner thugs and the Loskalmi Mailshirts. The Judges are no use as they are again infected by the schism. Matters comes to a head when the Blue Cityship crashlands at Sog City just before the closing. Sog City, IMO, resembled downtown Rwanda as the last ofthe God learners are expelled becuase the Emperor of Seshnela can send in no more troops.
Sog City then undergoes an economic decline, hastened by Jonat's sack, continuing civil war in Loskalm (all Kings until Snodal's time are from peasant Stock <- the real thing) and the Syndics Ban.
All IMO naturally.
>As a big fan of Arkati cults I'm working on trying to tie in some Arkati
>groups to the history of Sog and the fact that the God Learners seem to
>have ignored Sog looks like place to start. Does anyone have any
Probably ferried in by the Vadeli. There's a temple of Black Arkat in Heortland (the precise status of which is a source of major debate here on the Digest). When King Richard took over the Heortland, he subjected the indigenous Aeolian faith to a religious purge. The Arkati could be refugees from there and with abiding hatred of the Rokari or anybody even remotely connected with them (hint hint).
>Just what is the connection
>between the Waertagi and Dragons? Are the ships really made out of
One idea (sparked by the Lunar view of the Dragonewt dream and the conversion of the Reptile Hsunchen of Ryzel into Dragonewts at the time of the Broken Council) would be for the Dragonewts to try and mutate the figurehead into an actual inhuman king equivalent so they could turn Sog City into another Dragons Eye.
Hope this helps...
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