[Glorantha]Land of Thunder Kultain (and Balmyr) problems

From: Ian Cooper <ian_hammond_cooper_at_yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:48:04 +0000 (GMT)


Hi Joerg,

Dragon Pass was a case of trying to reconcile disparate sources without breaking too much, but priority went to II souces or Greg. Here is why the decison was made. I think it is a reasonable solution to the problems. Of course YGMV.

The Balmyr The Kultain


The location of the Balmyr south of Wilmskirk comes from:

  1. The map on page 7 of Dragon Pass previously appeared in Barbarian Adventures. It located the Balymr south of Wilmskirk. I believe that was drawn from Greg's originals however we were pretty much commited to that loation for the Balmyr, Locaem et al.
  2. The Locaem must now abut the Colymar - to their north - remember they take the Zethnoring clan from the Colymar after Starbrow's rebellion in 1613.
  3. King of Sartar identifes Locaem and Kurtali invaders pushing out the Balmyr from 1400 - late but within the timeframe for second wave of the resettlemnt.
  4. From Greg's handrawn maps of Colymar lands (still up on the II site I think) the Zethnoring clan - once Colymar now Locaem - are located south of the stream on the far side of Clearwine - near Richberry Vale.
  5. Greg's Colymar maps do identify the Balmyr as having once been south of the Colymar - but as the Locaem are there now for them to join the Zethnoring we must assume that this was an area they were forced from - hence the references to Chormsland and Richberry vale as conflict sites.

"Around 1400 the Locaem and Kultain tribes from the south moved into the Balmyr region. The Balmyr called for whatever help they could get, but only the Sambari tribe responded in time for the only battle of the war. The Balmyr lost and were slaughtered as they fled. The invaders took large pieces of the conquered territory for their own, but left some for the survivors. The Kultain tribe controlled trade routes south afterwards."

The Sambari connection fits with the current map if assume that the Locaem and Kultain expansion pushed the Balmyr east up against the Sambari and the Stormwalks. Then the Locaem hold the north-west and the Kultain hold the trade routes from Twotop south to Whitewall. The Sylangi now hold what was Kultain territory - so on the map on p.7 their lands are combined. If you need old Kultain clans anywhere else then I would pick out towards the Curtali. My assumption is that Salvi led the Locaem displacement of the Balmyr, because he sought his ancestor Bran's lands, and his people pushed further north. Abutting the Colymar it now makes sense for the Locaem to take the Zethnoring.

So while the Balmyr were one of the Quivini tribes in the first part of the resettlement, I do not believe that the Locaem entries IN DP:LoT invalidate that, Salvi and his followers simply forced the Balmyr out of the Branlands.

>Richberry Vale, Chormsland

These are seen as conflict areas between the tribes - at one point between the Locaem and the Balmyr, more lately between the Locaem and the Colymar with Locaem
>From Greg's handrawn maps of Colymar lands (still up
on the II site I think) the Zethnoring clan - once Colymar now Locaem - are located here.

But if the Balmyr need to be north of Wilmskirk for your Glorantha, then just do not have them driven from Chormsland by the Locaem. We already identify them as holding Sorang the the south. It makes sense for me, that in settling the conflict Sartar placed Wilmskirk at the junstion of Locaem, Sambari, and Balmyr territory, but YGMV.

>If Halfort is to have been the Balmyr royal seat for
centuries, then it has to be located a lot further north - just west of the Sambari Firebull Clan tula,
>northwest of Wasp Nest.

No. The text just states that the wealth of the salt-mines has flowed to the Balmyr for generations (a generation is usually reckoned at about 20-30 years). Though it is the royal seat now, there is no requirement that it has held that role for centuries.

Sartar stablizes the borders around 1476 - more than 120 years ago - so if the fort has been Balmyr since then generations is a reasonable phrase. However more likely that the fort has been Balmyr since the early resettlement; we know that they lost territory to the Locaem and Kultain, but the lands they fled to may well have been their own eatern domain.

Finally remember that clans might remain in place while tribal power shifts. Some of the clans now making up the Locaem might once have ben Balmyr but have been won away by the Locaem. These do not have to be entirely mass-migrations - note that the conquerers 'left some for the survivors' i.e. absorbed former Balmyr clans.

>Enjossi saga

Yes Enjossi's rejection by the Balmyr king seems a bit trickier if the Balmyr are not up against the stream. But remember this event happens in 1476, as does the peace treaty of Sartar between the clas. There is implication in KoS that the Enjossi clan was formed agains the wishes of the Balmyr:

"Nothing, which the Balmyr could do after that, would dislodge Enjossi or his folk from the area."

and my assumption is that Enjossi and his followers took Balmyr land along the stream with the support of the Colymar, when the Balmyr king refused to help Enjossi - in other words they lost that land too, which ws probably the last of their territories along the stream. It does seem to imply that Colymar enntry into the conflict worsened the Balmyr position in the final settlement.

But as always - tweak it if you want a different layout.



Ian Cooper
0208-672-0717(H)07970-411892 (M)0207-337-6217 (W)

"Give the kids tools, so they can go build their own houses; not the blueprint of what the houses should be." Tori Amos



Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

--__--__-- Received on Tue 27 Jan 2004 - 10:45:13 EET

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0 : Sun 04 Feb 2007 - 19:57:42 EET