[Glorantha]Re: Glorantha digest, Vol 10 #15 - 7 msgs

From: <joe_at_toppoint.de>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:13:44 +0100 (CET)

> Subject: [Glorantha]Personal Note on Dragon Pass (2)

> As heortling is known for half-farming and half-nomadic, maybe boundary is
> not so distinct as I assume, (in one of my KODP games, when Colymer
> ambassador came, I paid much more and joined Colymer Tribe as an enclave,
> so maybe heortling tribes were mapped as patchworks, not distinct

Unless there were very binding reasons, these patchworks may have re-formed via treaties etc. to grow into more coherent parts over time.

On the other hand, I come from a land which historically has been just such a patchwork of lands, and in cases where a formerly dominant tribe was pushed out of large parts of their territory they may have held on to a few magically defended places.

> @Dawn Age Tribes Note
> http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/LegendaryTribesofVingkotandHeort.htm
> According to old Jeff Richard's note, Stravuli was dominant in Heort's
> regime, but later hindered for the folly of kings (See Stampede p.30) by
> Liornvuli of Kordros and Orgovaltes (See Forthan), maybe as hammer and
> anvil. That might be the reason why Berenethtelli led heortlings after
> that.

That, and their proximity to the Second Council of Dorastor.

> I can't find the information about why "Orvantes" was replaced to
> Sedenorvuli, see Storm Tribe.

The Sedenorvuli lived north of Shadow Plateau, on Sedenorshill (not on any map) which was known for dolmen. This makes it likely that they occupied Beast Valley before the Remakers changed that place. See below (Orgorvaltes).

> (#Berenethtelli?: Hero Beren? and his horse Chakandar? (Charandar Hills)

The Beren subcult of Elmal rather than Beren the husband for Charandar, I suppose.

(not that there necessarily must have been a difference in the Godtime)

Berenneth the Rider settled near the old Hyaloring lands in Saird. His tribe survived there until the breaking of the Second Council, when the Talastari under Loky systematically eradicated his people and lands, forcing the survivors to flee south into Heortland.

> I am not sure about Beren (husband of Redaylda?) and Beren"neth"....? See
> also Ulaninstead, maybe the two brother-in-laws are also brother-in-arms,
> or rivals?)

The entries are written in a way that allows either.

I suppose either may have been the case, too. The tales of the Seven Husbands have never been detailed anywhere. My take is that Ulanin and Beren were rivals, probably with different kinds of steeds, too, who had a lesser rivalry going when not riding forth to do greater Vingkotling fighting.

> (#Kodigvari?: Arfritha Kodigdottir? married with Orgovaltes?)

In fosterage? More likely the foundress of another Star Tribe in northern Sartar which has been forgotten.

> #Liornvuli (aka Island Tribe, Kordros Isle, descent from Lastralgortelli
> (it
> contradicts JR's note in Enclosure, in his note, it is from Kodigvari))
> See Boarford, Stampede (p.30), Kaufonstead, Kordros Island)

Liornvuli (and IIRC Forosilvuli) from Lastralgortelli is correct.

> (As far as I know, in Battle of Night and Day, Liornvuli sided with the
> army of Lokamayadon, maybe reluctantly, but they will certainly punished
> by Arkat, later.)

AKA Arkat's Command, leading to the Tax Slaughter some 128 years later.

> #Stravuli (Dominant Tribe under Highking Heort, Grizzly Peak)
> Stravul the Lean (Founder)
> Heroes: Stravul and Koffer (Koffer Hills)
> Descendants: Both Arim the Pauper and Firstblood Tribe of Ilaro (he
> insists of blood of Alakoring) inherit its blood? When did Hendarli and
> Firstblood part?
> See Arim's Wash, Grizzlypeak, Koffer Hills and Stravulstead

The strongest of several Jorganostelli splinter groups. (Another, smaller exclave survived at Berthestead in northeastern Tarsh)

I have a very personal reason to be curious about the fate of Jorganos the Archer. Apparently his people formed a plethora of tribes, two of which became prominent in Heort's time. The Jaranings appear to be extinct, at least in Dragon Pass, although we know little about the other side of the Skyreach range.

> #Orgovaltes (Quivinland)
> Ulanin the Rider (Cattle Raid? See "Red Cow", greatbull Gochbadan and
> Ulanin)
> Heroes: Bran Great Beard? (Ancestor of Salvi the Good), Forthan
> (Forthanland), Tantrell (Tantrell Hills),
> <I don't know why Heort was born in Orgovaltes Land, though he is a
> Koroltes....perhaps that dangerous time between uzland and devastated
> Chaos land, only the root of Quivin was relatively safe?)

Heort was born after the Sword and Helm Saga events, when most of the Vingkotling world already was shattered, and life was a bitter fight for survival. It is possible that Darndrev's deer clan had gone over to the Orgorvaltes, who seem to have survived in a comparatively secure position. However, the Koroltes survived hardly in a weaker condition.

The alternative is the "christian" birth during travel.

> See Starfire Ridge(Illavan Clan, "Argrath" fled from here), Sacred Top?
> (Amilanth and Jeromar?), Tantrell Hills, Two Ridge Fort (their Center of
> Power?), Ulaninstead

Two Ridge may have grown in importance after the Dawn, but at the Dawn the Orgorvaltes survived in Ulaninstead, near modern Wilmskirk.

> Descendants: Salvi of Locaem? (I am not sure Bran was Orgovaltes, see
> above about heortling boundary)

Bran may as well have been descended from the Sedenorvuli, who lived "north of Shadow Plateau". Their lands may have included Wild Temple in Beast Valley (which wasn't called that before the Remakers' experiments).

> #Orvantes (Volsaxiland)
> Heroes: Volsax and Dreven (See Dreven Vale), Orlgar?
> See Hartside (Hero Orlgar of Storm Age), Karstanstead (Karstan
> Nine-with-One), Ramsleap (Urothing Clan), Volsaxiland (Hero Volsax,
> Nightjumpers)
> Descendants: Bacofi of modern Volsaxar (See Northvale)

A "bad name". -tes usually is reserved for the Summer Tribes, only three of which existed in Vingkot's lifetime (Koroltes, Orgovaltes, Vestantes), with Kodig's tribe bearing the royal -vari and the Second Son remaining tribeless. All the tribes created after Vingkot's death are so-called Star Tribes, receiving the ending -vuli (starting with the Liornvuli and Forosilvuli, IIRC).

The Northvale description makes it possible that the Orvantes were a group of Silver Age survivors settling there after leaving some shelter with other, more powerful groups.

> #Garanvuli (Syphon River region)
> Heroes: Jan Ironclad, King Orvis
> See Janfjord (Jan), Orvistula (Orvis)

The original Heortlanders of Vingkotling times. Their southern neighbors may have been Pelaskites or Durevings who later were adopted by the Ingareens of God Forgot.

I don't know why Terra doubts their Vingkotling nature on his website (see above). Already then clans may have formed to wander off and settle new territories, or reclaim old ones.

There needn't have been a great difference between Vingkotling and Dureving tribes, either, with clans possibly quite freely able to change allegiance. The Durevings seem to have had less of a royal tradition than the Vingkotlings, but otherwise had much the same culture and deities, and all the racial characteristics, too. Some Helering clans appear to have joined Vingkotling tribes, too; at least they may appear among the Heortling tribes at the Dawn.

There were a couple of non-Heortling (or not-quite Heortling) tribes present at the Dawn, too - most prominent the Aramite humans of Ivory Plinth, the Pelaskites of Old Karse and various River Folk of Tarsh and Saird.

> @Modern Heortland

> #Volsaxar Earldom
> Whitewall (King Bryan)
> Darsrest Hroar (Bacofi, self-styled Earl of all Volsaxi?)
> Line of Smithstone---Roadend is controled by Baron Sanuel.

At least the road is patrolled by his forces.

> Twotop is of Sylangi (their part of domain, Markdale is Home of Bryan)
Actually, Roadend is likely to be their ancestral (that is Modern Age ancestral) fort.

> Stagwood (Curtali)

Much of which is under direct control of Sanuel.

> #Karhend Earldom
> Jansholm (Seat of Eorl, Willelm the Bloody)

Too bad that Mularik has been taken out of the picture...

> Deadwood EWF Lord?
> Lord One Ex (Ascension in the end of Youf?)

I thought this was about a noble dragonewt.

> Umm, I cannot remember or find the reason why Stravulstead should not be
> called Iliastead before Firstbloods....?

Check the Black Dragon text in the Known True Dragons box, page 23: It ate all of the EWF era Ialos tribe when it devoured the greatest city of the Pass region - presumably at Kordros Island, which offers itself for great cities.


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End of Glorantha Digest Received on Tue 27 Jan 2004 - 10:46:57 EET

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