[Glorantha]Re: Uz society

From: Joerg Baumgartner <joe_at_toppoint.de>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:30:12 +0100 (CET)


Taking this to the digest...
--- In HeroQuest-RPG_at_yahoogroups.com, "simon_hibbs2" <simon.hibbs_at_m...> wrote:
> gerakkag wrote (a few days ago):

>> To be a troll, ya gotta have KL in charge. This doesn't mean that you
>> can't have a clan that, say, *looks* like trolls, *acts* like  trolls,
>> are *like* trolls, but KL isn't on top. They're not trolls by
>> *definition* (to be a troll = KL is da mama). All trolls  tell you
>> they're not trolls. But at some point, ya gotta ask: if it walks like
>> a duck...*

I think this would have been better phrased "To be (one of) Uz..."

> Why would they be indistinguishable from Trolls if they're not
> trolls?

Beings that eat not only the cattle but also the stable, rock and wood, who wield darkness powers?

> Are there things that look like Aldryami, but aren't?

An argument could be made for the Homerot Elves gathering at Hegua (on the Gaskallia coast in Pamaltela). The Hellwood krjalki are chaotic and don't count.

> I suppose if you want copycat creatures that aren't the real thing for
> some reason in your Glorantha that's fine, and discovering the reason
> might make a fun game. If they're not trolls and troll magic doesn't
> work for them and anti-troll magic doesn't work against them then
> someone will soon realise they're not Trolls..

That's a bit like the Only Old One: some times he could prove he was a human, at other times he could prove that he was a troll.

> Well the Muri of Pamaltela lost their connection to Kyger Litor and
> they didn't become human, they just became 'something else'.

Exactly. They retained quite a lot of trollisms when their ancestress was robbed of her cold powers. They lost about half of what made them trolls.

Now, how about a hypothetical troll group that lost their shadow abilities but not their cold? White beings hiding in the reflected light from the snow/ice surface?

> The Midget Slashers lost their connection to the Man Rune and they're
> nolonger trolls either.

In their case, it is clear why they didn't becom humans either...

> I believe there are other examples of
> devolved trolls in Trollpak. I think the theoretical principle that
> elder race beings that lose their other runic connections and only
> have the Man rune left will become human is only a very technical
> proposition. In practice it would be almost impossible for it to
> actually happen that way.

The Grazer origin myth turns centaurs in horses and humans. While I think that Ironhoof did this only for Harftraftos the Founder (and maybe his immediate herd), this is coming close.

> Aldryami and Mostali are different from trolls because they are
> relatively at home in the middle world. The trolls are creatures of
> hell, and the surface world is an alien realm for them in a way it
> isn't for Mostali, and particularly Aldryami.

An excellent point. I wonder whether the trolls really ever lost fertility, or whether they gained a lesser version of fertility on their flight from the Underworld. As a rule, only the Middle World generates new life...

> Trolls have huge
> problems even surviving in the surface world at the best of times -
> imagine what it would be like for living human beings to survive and
> establish a stable society and culture in the underworld!

Stability in the Underworld is fairly easy, after all beyond certain border-case regions you are by definition dead if you stay in the Underworld. Maintaining fertility is the trick...

The way I read the Uz migration history, Wonderhome was fairly deep down the Underworld, within reach of Subere's gate to Death and worse.

--__--__-- Received on Thu 12 Feb 2004 - 06:56:58 EET

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