Fw: [whitewall] Re: [Glorantha]Retrofitting Fimbulwinter into KoS

From: Jonathan Quaife <jonathan.quaife_at_btinternet.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:31:21 -0000


I think Kallyr's "failed" quest comes after Whitewall because in KoS it is followed by establishment and Kingship and clearly occurs after the Dragonrise: it follows that this KoS quest that "fails" is something different even to the LBQ refered to in Orlanth is Dead. Jane mentioned the
"can of worms" re. repeating quests. I can't resist opening just a
teeny-weeny bit. It seems clear to me that you can repeat them, but repeated encounters will always work out the same way (or in effect *be the same event*). The benefit (or penalty) from these re-lived events has already been had. Thus finding different paths and aspects of myths is important. I think that one can construe plenty of examples of people repeating heroquests, beginning with Harmast.

I mentioned in an earlier post "a" as opposed to "the" LBQ. In KoS it is
"the" LBQ that brings back Sheng Seleris: as such this one is in the same
league as Harmast's quests, for example. The heroquest path for "the" LBQ is described in KoS as having been forgotten, and this is an important plot device, I feel. Consequently I would say that the other recorded LBQ's: namely Garrath's in the Giant's Cradle scenario (bringing back the Sun Wheel Dancer), Kallyr's in Orlanth is Dead, and Kallyr's again later in KoS, are in some form lesser, incomplete versions of the greater quest, which (IMO) includes components of re-creation/ cosmogony absent from these examples.

On the Fimbulwinter and KoS.

The annotated Argrath's Saga talks about the Battle of Milran after which
"Orlanth was released". There is also a reference to men of fire, although
in the Battle of Iceland the men of Fire that appear fight for the Lunars, not Argrath, so maybe this is talking about some other lot. I would suggest that the Saga here is confused, but at least we have a reference to Orlanth's release and thus perhaps indirectly to the Fumbulwinter.

CHoDP does, I believe, contain passing reference to something that could be construed as the Battle of Iceland, although not to the Fimbulwinter. Reading from my notes, re. KoS p.150 I wrote, "In Heortland rebellion gathers, Fazzur is expelled from office and Tatius takes command of the Provincial Army. He commits troops to combat Broyan and releases chaos from Larnste's Footprint. He lays foundations for the Temple of the Reaching Moon at Old Wind. The Heortling rebellion has mixed success--Tatius' dispatched soldiers are ambushed, but the chaos monsters and also the arrival of wolf pirates hinder the whole business of rebellion". I posited in my notes that the ambush of Tatius' soldiers in fact is the Battle of Iceland, and this is listed as occurring in 1622 which of course agrees with Orlanth is Dead...

I can post my notes or send them by e-mail at somebody's request. However, could somebody explain to me how to upload a file and where I should upload it to! Thanks!

--Hope you're all doing great, very much enjoying the ongoing discussions!

Best wishes,



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End of Glorantha Digest Received on Thu 25 Mar 2004 - 06:03:01 EET

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