Re: Fw: [whitewall] Re: [Glorantha]Retrofitting Fimbulwinter into KoS

From: Jane Williams <>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:20:35 +0000 (GMT)

> I think Kallyr's "failed" quest comes after
> Whitewall because in KoS it is
> followed by establishment and Kingship and clearly
> occurs after the Dragonrise:

That's how Denseros presents it, yes. The suggestion was that he's (again) mispresenting the date at least. Remember, this is the guy who presents history as if she died permanently in 1626!

If you read the wording carefully, he never actually states when it occurs, nor gives any causality links. It's post-1602, as that's when it was last tried, he says.

>It seems clear to me that you can
> repeat them, but repeated
> encounters will always work out the same way (or in
> effect *be the same
> event*). The benefit (or penalty) from these
> re-lived events has already been had.

That's certainy a valid viewpoint, but I tend to look at it a different way: you can try to do the same HQ, but there are *always* variations. In the station where you meet an enemy, who or what will it be? Different every time.

Going onto the HeroPlnae is *always* an uncertain business. That's just one reason why it's so dangerous.

> I think that one can construe plenty of examples of
> people repeating
> heroquests, beginning with Harmast.

Hence my objection to stating it as a Rule: it's misleading.

> I mentioned in an earlier post "a" as opposed to
> "the" LBQ. ... The
> heroquest path for "the" LBQ is
> described in KoS as having been forgotten, and this
> is an important plot device, I feel.

Good point.

> Consequently I would say that the
> other recorded LBQ's:
> namely Garrath's in the Giant's Cradle scenario
> (bringing back the Sun Wheel
> Dancer), Kallyr's in Orlanth is Dead, and Kallyr's
> again later in KoS, are
> in some form lesser, incomplete versions of the
> greater quest, which (IMO)
> includes components of re-creation/ cosmogony absent
> from these examples.

Nice idea. They're all sub-sets. The variant Kallyr tries in CHDP is in fact the same as that tried (by who?) in 1602, but all the rest are different. In fact, we know the Iceland one took 7 days, and the CHDP one normally took 14 (So if they're the same, she compressed it. Could be.)

> I would suggest that the Saga here is confused,

I would suggest that the Saga is confused, here and everywhere else.

>I posited in my notes that
> the ambush of Tatius' soldiers in fact is the Battle
> of Iceland, and this is
> listed as occurring in 1622 which of course agrees
> with Orlanth is Dead...

That does seem to fit.

> could somebody explain to me how to upload a file
> and where I should upload it to!

I see you've managed to upload it to the WHitewall Files area (and very helpful it looks, too!) AFAIK the Glorantha list has no such associated files area? You could put it on your own web-site, if you have such a thing?

Jane Williams                                   

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--__--__-- Received on Fri 26 Mar 2004 - 06:57:04 EET

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