[Glorantha]Tibet and Yoga, Tantra

From: TERRA INCOGNITA <inarsus-ferilt-z_at_mrg.biglobe.ne.jp>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:37:25 +0900


Hello, Kevin:

I humbly think your statement might invoke misunderstanding, for you intentinally ignore historical context. if someone literally read your writing, it might be anachronistic as an Ancient Pelandan invokes Carmanos as an incarnate of Rufelza.... YOGISM IS SOMETIMES NOT TANTRISM, VICE VERSA.

> The reason I say this is based on my understanding of Tibetan Buddhism,
> where it is thought that as you advance in your spiritual practice you
> gain magical powers - clairvoyance, levitation, the ability to walk
> through walls, etc.

As far as I know, these powers are listed in Yoga Sutra, as magical power which can be obtained by its own method. Yoga Sutra is older text before Tibetan Buddhism much absorbed indian sources (including many Tantric Texts, derived from Yogic Sects, which based on Raja Sutra as canon.)

> These powers naturally become available as a side
> effect of yogic mind training, but are not directly related to spiritual
> insight.

Tibetan Buddhism is Mahayana Buddhism, so it is okay to use their power gotten from their practice for their people's welfare, of course after "carefully" checked.... (Thus, I suppose failed-mysticism in Greg's taxonomy.)

Greg said, "Mahayana Buddhism is not Mysticism." Yes for Theraveda? No for Mahayana. Mahayana Bodhisattvas want to help populace from suffering, Dalai Lama considered to be identified with Avalokitesvala, one of greatest bodhisativas. I suppose Tibetan Buddhism has some similarity to Kralori Dragon Imperial Religion.

> They may be useful or pleasant, but they are ultimately
> unimportant. A good TB practitioner never speaks of his own powers,
> though.. The disciples of a teacher may attribute powers to their
> beloved guru, but the guru recognizes the trap that dwelling on them
> pose to spiritual progress - egotism. A spiritual practitioner who
> becomes obsessed with blissful experiences or magical powers becomes
> distracted from the goal of enlightenment. The experiences and powers
> are not inherently evil, though. They are just a distraction.

Tantric Practice of Tibetan Buddhism is risky for it dares to use sensual image and kundalini (Dogsalu or Hakka? in mind of Peter Metcalph?), trying to shorten the required period of time for practice. It is derived from Indian Yogism, but for Buddhism appeared as an antithesis of hinduistic methods, modern geluq (Dalai Lama) sect carefully checks its practice and forbid its use except a few great gurus who can dare to risk both its danger and wondrous effect.

> Once the master has achieved enlightenment, however, all bets are off.
> After his enlightenment the Buddha remained in the world out of selfless
> compassion. He trained others in the path he (re)discovered, and used
> his magical powers when appropriate to that goal. Because he had no ego
> remaining that might suffer temptation, there was no reason to avoid
> using his powers. Now it is certainly possible that from a gloranthan
> POV the Buddha is a failed mystic, but his followers would certainly not
> see it that way! And who ultimately knows for sure? I don't think
> carving the answer in stone helps gloranthan storytelling get any easier
> or better. I much prefer to leave such issues open.

Yes, what makes Kralori difficult to comprehend is they are draconic in some sense, dragonewts and Youf might be inhuman, but Kralori is human. I suppose to write about Kralori might be nightmare more than Carmanians....

>
> So... IMO the failed mystic is a person who has allowed him/herself to
> become distracted by bliss or power, and has lost sight of (or wholly
> abandoned) the true goal of mysticism. His or her ego has grown out of
> control instead of being destroyed. Such a person might have terrible
> powers, like some Illuminates in peloria who can act as they wish,
> ignore spirits of reprisal, and still gain magic from their god(s).
> Sheng might be such a failed mystic, wielding powers discovered during
> his mystical training that subsequently became an obsession.
>
As I said before, maybe as a collective band, not person, gloranthan can mix Three World "mystically" even in Official Set.....

TI

--__--__-- Received on Wed 21 Apr 2004 - 23:31:42 EEST

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