[Glorantha]Re: Your Kralorela, my Kralorela

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_quicksilver.net.nz>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:48:03 +1200

At 05:04 PM 5/25/04 +0900, TERRA INCOGNITA wrote:

> > I agree that the Pentans are not evil but it does not follow that Sheng
> > Seleris is not evil.
>What's the definition of Evil? Everything is under relative evaluation if
>you don't have absolute criteria.

I generally think of Sheng as evil in the same way that the Kingdom of War is evil.

> > I do not believe Godunya can pass on through Utuma. He has already done
> > so when Sheng Seleris came and negated that by his return. Now he
> lingers in
> > a senile state waiting for a natural end.

>This is new theory, certainly.

Actually it was in the original glorantha: intro drafts.

> > I don't know where the Mandarin = Vashanti comes from. Mandarins are
> > explicitly stated as beginning with Mikaday.

>I think Mikaday started such, but Vashanti recovered (by its own fashion)
>after Vayobi's militaristic Era and much oblivion.

That doesn't seem right to me. Although the Sagely tradition could have been modified in Vashanti's era as part of a general recovery, it doesn't seem right to me that Vashanti modified an existing order rather creating something new.

>Mark Galeotti didn't openly say so, but hinted such and scribes are of

I'm dubious of the hint and have had several bad experiences with such.

>Currently, my main concern is Chi Ting. Bitter Struggle of Eunuchs and

I also include the army in that struggle. Again this is something that I wrote for the glorantha: intro.

         Archexarch of War


         The appearance of Ships from Kethaela at the Opening was a shock and
         a fright for the Kralori. But [the Archexarch] acted promptly and 
         He breached palace protocol by going over the heads of the leading 
         and alerted Godunya to the new threat.  His prompt action secured the
         quick mobilization of the Navy that sank the fleet of western 
devils with
         minimal loss of life.  [The Archexarch] was astute enough to 
praise Godunya
         for his wise leadership.  When his predecessor admitted blame for 
the initial
         invasion and committed utuma, loud cheers and inward groans 
greeted his
         induction as Seven Dragon and Wisdom, the Archexarch of War.

         [The Archexarch] has been irritated by the attention paid to Yao 
         senseless ravings. He would persuade Godunya to quash the whole thing
         for once and for all but the Eunuchs have barred him from entering 
the Palace
         for his earlier slights upon their protocol.  Every day, he 
visibly chafes when he
         is debriefed on the worsening crisis in Chern Durel.  The 
Mandarins all smirk
         when they hear of how ChungKwo has been confounded by a naked hermit.

         Yao Fune


         Kralorela's woes, Yao Fune stated, stem from its method of 
renouncing the
         outside world.  Instead of rejecting all contact, it actively 
compels the outside
         world to stay away and in doing so, it commits error.  If 
Kralorela renounced
         war forever then it would draw closer to the Cosmic Dragon so much 
that even
         the Seven Flooded Provinces would be restored to their original 

         Yao Fune's answer took Kralorela by storm. Many Exarchs were pleased to

         hear it for they longed for a chance to humble the Archexarch of War, whom

         they felt was "over proud, over mighty and over us". Others were doubtful for

         they lived near the borders and the Archexarch of War even threatened to

         thrash Yao Fune for filling people's heads with such confounded nonsense.

         But he had powerful enemies in the palace eunuchs for his brutal slaughter

         of several companies of eunuch guards when the Western Fleet appeared.

         They wasted no time in persuading Godunya to summon a Circle of Learning

         to study Yao Fune's advice and even suggested the scholars and sages
         whom they felt were most suitable.

         After several years of deliberations, the Circle finally proposed 
a funeral for the
         outside world as a partial test.  If it worked, so well and good, 
Kralorela would
         abandon all War forever.  If not, then no more need be heard about 
it.  The
         Funeral was held last year and even Godunya made one of his rare 
         and smiled at the Archexarchs as if they were faintly familiar to 
him. A statue of
         Sheng Seleris was blessed and thrown beneath the waters to 
indicate that no
         longer would he be propitiated. The Archexarch of War fumed 
throughout the
         funeral and afterwards ordered several regiments to commit utuma 
for insufficient

         All Kralorela is waiting for a sign to see whether the funeral has 
succeeded or failed.
         The Kingdom of Ignorance is arming and this worries many.  The 
Archexarch of War
         has been threatened with an invitation to commit utuma if he dares 
to violate the
         spirit of the funeral and march against Ignorance.

>Peter Metcalph rejected objective reality of MaoTzen = Jerem = Gilam De

Just to make things clear, I deny that MaoTzen is Jerem. That he is Gilam D'estau's son and might be Gilam returned is something that I do not deny.

>Even in your Glorantha, I assume some (many?) people of Kralorela hate
>exarchs who fled to North and enjoyed good life by defeating mere trollkins

>while they suffered under the Yoke of ShangHsa and failed revolts of
>Heseroon Marn. Exarchs might have brought back Tantric Methods to mainland
>after Godunya overthrew ShangHsa, but some people (didn't escape from there)
>don't admit it is traditional way of Kralorela.

That's an interesting insight. That many Kralori sages practice magical techniques developed during their sojourn in the New Kingdom of Wisdom that are viewed as corrupt and ignorant by the mainstream.

>I still think there is some similarity to enigmatic Zolathi = Saka Morn sect
>and Kralori tantrism, but don't have strong opinion on it, except RW example
>that relationship between tibetan Sakya sect and Mongolian Empire.

Hmm. So Saka Morn could be an Ignorant practice that was purified during the New Kingdom of Wisdom? So that when Sheng Seleris studies it, he sees the evil possibilities latent in these teachings and succumbs?

> > Moreover I think here you are trying to conflate the Mandala (Circle of
> > Infinite Dragons) and the I Ching. I don't think they are the same
> > thing - one's to do with draconism and the other is a product of
> cosmological
> > evolution (hinted at the Myth of the Three against One).

>Your idea of Three against One is another new input. Then you think Three
>against One (Vithelan foreign idea) is a sort of I-ching. Mandala (In RW,
>Tantric) is more indegeneous....Again, ignoring RW source.

I should point out that I think the Mandala is a representation of the ancient Wheel of Life that was used by Shavaya and others. Hence it would be found not only in Kralorela but Teshnos (where they have dwarf made prayer wheels), Vormain and perhaps Ignorance. Daruda developed a draconic version of the Mandala.

As for the sorcerous I-Ching, it's as old as Vithela and might have been systemized in some prehistoric era.

--Peter Metcalfe


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End of Glorantha Digest Received on Tue 25 May 2004 - 06:25:52 EEST

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