Re: [Glorantha] Heortling initiation

From: Jane Williams <>
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:45:14 +0100 (BST)

> "In game terms, the
> New Adult is a
> communal worshipper of the entire Orlanth Pantheon.
> They do not learn
> any specific magic until they actually become
> initiates of Orlanth,
> Ernalda, or another deity."
> The New Adult, therefore, is not an Ernaldan
> initiate.

I'd missed that completely - thanks. And as you say, it makes a huge difference. So at this point, it seems that there are no gender-related differences? The New Adults are all the same?

I seem to remember (without books to hand) that the "report on the Orlanthi" in KoS mentions something about mixed-gender rites being a new idea. Possibly this really is a Gloranthan change with time, not just retrospective altering of How Things Work? If so, why, and when, I wonder?

> Anyway, does the bio give an indication of when our
> Vingan/Vanganthi/Rigsdali spent her year studying
> Ernalda?

Sorry, no books to hand: but I quoted all that section, originally, didn't I? Do you have OiD to check yourself? I'd assumed it was just before her initiation to adulthood at 14, but it looks like I was wrong.

> > > If, instead, she turned to Vinga as a Red Woman
> -- and I
> > > don't have the
> > > sources to hand, but I think she avenged a
> massacre of her kin
> > > somewhere in there -- she mightn't need to reach
> Vinga
> > > through Ernalda.

And when I answered this, I thought we were talking about a generic, theoretical Vingan, not this one in particular.

In the current published time-line, no specific massacre of kin is mentioned. Nor is it denied. Having most of the house of Sartar wiped out in 1602 might be related, of course. My earlier version of the timeline specifically had her *clan* wiped out (mother's line), and yes, she did get a bit upset with the people who did it (now deceased). But in either case, the kin-massacre came after the Vingan initiation, so can't have caused it.

> > Certainly not by 1621. And she's a bit short of
> time for that kind of
> > thing, so my guess is not any time soon, if at
> all. As a general
> > rule, leaders aren't devotees.
> Oh well, both my spear-kin and my spindle-kin are
> god-blessed, so I
> probably didn't realise this until after the
> commitment had been made.

It's one of those things that a lot of us missed back when we were generating new HW PCs. Look at numeric/powergaming differences between initiate and devotee, make PC a devotee. No-brain decision. Since then we've looked harder at that time commitment, and the idea of concentrated magic has come up. The disadvantages of being a devotee are more obvious.

> In the Ernalda write-up in TR p. 177 it does say
> "... all women are
> Ernalda worshippers." I'm guessing this might be an
> Orlanthi "all",
> although I'm boggling slightly at the consequences
> for the fertility of
> women who initiate to other cults without passing
> through Ernalda.

Depends on whether fertiity and Ernalda are linked by cause and effect, and if so, in which direction. Back in RQ3 days, I liked the idea that initiation *caused* sexual maturity, so sex before initiation wasn't just taboo, it was effectively impossible (well, unproductive.) We now know better.  

> And once I get past writing up the New Adult phase,
> I'm sure I'll have
> things to discuss about becoming a devotee.

And the differences between doing it as back-story and doing it in-game. The former seems to me to have far more potential for drama without overshadowing the rest of the group.

Jane Williams                                   

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--__--__-- Received on Sat 29 May 2004 - 06:56:40 EEST

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