[Glorantha]Re: Bulls and Lunar trivia (Peter Metcalfe)

From: Joerg Baumgartner <joe_at_toppoint.de>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:44:49 +0200 (CEST)

>>> The clans of the lowlands are just as free if not more so under the >>> Red Moon than they were before.

>>Freer than the Andrinic shires in Heortland,

> Just as free. The Andrinic sheriffs are not oppressors.

The clan chieftains of the Tarsh lowlands are quite free to cut on their taxes, plot feuds, etc.

The Andrinic sheriffs are appointees by the king, chosen from a body of specially instructed people (according to my understanding of some debate on the Whitewall list with Peter: members of a special cult or heroband which was spawned off Hendreik's Larnsti but which aren't full Larnsti, instituted by Andrin, and overseen by his successors).

Suspicious minds (like, say, your average Orlanthi liberal traditionalist) could suspect a conflict of interest between cultic membership in the non-clan organisation and the clan interests.

Peter said they may come from the fold of the clan (implying that every Andrinic clan has a small pool of Larnsti-schooled people).

The sheriffs supplant the chieftains in the Dar rites (or whichever other chieftain cult the clan traditionally used), and would be the person the (clan? shire?) wyter talks to. This puts some strain on the "follow chosen leaders" principle so loved by the Heortlings.

>> >  The nearest Orlanthi were on the other side of the Pelorian
>> > Basin when she was born.  Sedenya was a weapon against the
>> > _Carmanians_.

>>Against the Bull Shah Carmanians, who inherited the Bisosae traditions of >>the Hill Barbarian migrations.

> No, they didn't. Bisos is descended from the KefTavar, God of the
> Fronelan Bull People.

One of the Fronelan Hill Barbarian peoples which settled in Tawars and along the Janube Valley. And got converted by the Kachasti in Loskalm.

>>> The Seven Mothers had no contact or even political awareness of the >>> southern barbarians, full stop.

>>Other than as potential allies.

> Not so. The southern barbarians are simply Too Far Away hence
> Out Of Sight and Out Of Mind.

The Vanchite merchants and their guards were present within the Carmanian Empire. Their money will have influenced politics, and their contacts to the vast resources of more barbarian guards ought to have made this a source of allies. The Carmanians had some territory in Saird, too, and forging an alliance which threatens the southern holdings necessarily weakens the military and magical force in the north, or the Empire as a whole. Either way an awareness of the south had to be beneficial.

>> > Entekos is not a predecessor goddess to Rufelza.  Valare Addi once
>> > thought so but she was wrong and wrote the Entekosiad to find out
>> > why.  Entekos is another name for Dendara, the wife of the Sun.

>>Entekos is an unacknowledged aspect of the planetary goddess of the >>Middle Air

> Entekos is acknowledged even in Dara Happa.

As a goddess of the element air, but not as the planetary goddess. Basically, She is an elemental goddess Who Waits to be acknowledged as celestial, a weird combination of air, earth and sky.

>>  Rufelza seeks to emulate in binding Orlanth. The disproving of
>>Valare's theory can be undone, and IMO this is one aspect what the White
>>Moonies are about.

> How can Valare's theory be undone?

By following most of her footsteps and then departing on another heropath. Much like Valare herself has done. These are the Hero Wars, and issues like these are likely to come up, be quested upon, and decided. To paraphrase Greg, such are the stories of the Hero Wars.

> Dendara is provably not Rufelza.

True. But she could be proven to be Sedenya. Especially after Rufelza joins Lesilla's fate of becoming a plateau or a few mountain ranges. The color is right.

> The only connection is that they made each other
> - Dendara fashioned Gerra, Rufelza's shape portion while
> Sedenya made Dendara as part of making everything.

We know that She Who Waits shares some of the Ernalda Rites. In RuneQuest times, we knew this about Dendara. Then we learned about Entekos, and how she is not the Red Moon. Nevertheless, Entekos appears to have some Lunar properties.

I don't say that Entekos is Sedenya. I say that Valare's original theory may be proven e.g. by some of the White Moonies. Or possibly even by Jar-eel, assuming she escapes losing her heart to Harrek ("who wore it as a jewel ever afterwards" KoS p.27).

>>The Pelorian world order got right only when rebellion was >>assigned its place in the world.

> i.e. when the Rebels were defeated, punished and enslaved.

Pushed beyond the limits of the Empire, just as Yelm had Umatum treated by Shargash. The Rebel leader chained, the rest of the rebels out of sight - Golden Age restored.

>>They reconciled themselves with rebellion, and all was
>>well. Now the Lunar Empire is about to free the world of rebellion,
>>leaving it no place in the world. Doesn't this appear somewhat fishy?

> The Lunars are not about to free the world of rebellion. They never
> have any intention of freeing the world of rebellion. All they set out
> to do is to reconcile two different worldviews and make the world
> a better place.

Reconcile Empire (Solars, Dara Happans) with Rebellion (Orlanthi representing the non-Dara Happans), or which other worldview do you mean?

>>There isn't much mythical ground for Ernalda or other powers of the Earth >>accepting Chaos.

> The Uleria myth in Wyrms Footprints p34 is sufficient.

Away from my sources: is this Uleria and the Boggles? Uleria is not a power of the Earth, and the Boggles aren't Chaos.

Uleria not defying Thed's fertility: this may predate to happier times.

Thed is about the only earth-related deity (or, in this case, sufficiently powerful spirit) that comes to my mind as accepting Chaos. Enslaved by Chaos, yes.

Unless you count Hon-eel's Maize lover which embraces the Alanthore rites. A case of "to be, or not to be".

>>The red earth of Naveria sought to hinder the rise of the Red Moon, >>and still seeks to draw it down.

> They did? When the Naverians were conquered by the Dara
> Happans in mythic times, their leader was the Lord of Seven
> (GRAY p28) and also possibly the Protector Among Seven
> (Entekosiad p34). What is the seven but a recognition of
> Lunar Power?

The seven High Gods of Pelanda included Rashoran(a), but not Natha. In fact they fought the inclusion of Natha until Daxdarius (or was it Gartemirus?) forced them to include her into the Ten High Gods. The Red Moon is the Natha aspect, so it is mythically fine for the Naverians to resist.

> The only other aspect is Carantes which
> released the Hydra. Giving their resort to Chaotic Powers, it's
> not clear to me what their opposition to the Red Goddess was.

A repetition of the Chaos use e.g. by the Hidden Kings and in the Gbaji Wars, about to repeated again in Junora.

--__--__-- Received on Fri 11 Jun 2004 - 06:56:48 EEST

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