[Glorantha]Lunar Matters

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_quicksilver.net.nz>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 23:20:09 +1200


Joerg:

[Over the argument whether Sedenya was a weapon against the Carmanians or Orlanthi, Joerg claimed that the Bull Shahs were inspired by the Bisosae who were descended from Hill Barbarians]

> > No, they didn't. Bisos is descended from the KefTavar, God of the
> > Fronelan Bull People.

>One of the Fronelan Hill Barbarian peoples which settled in Tawars and
>along the Janube Valley. And got converted by the Kachasti in Loskalm.

The Fronelan Bull People are not Orlanthi Hill Barbarians and they weren't converted by the Kachasti, but during the Dawn Age when the Kachasti were a distinct memory.

> > The southern barbarians are simply Too Far Away [from the
> > Seven Mothers] hence Out Of Sight and Out Of Mind.

>The Vanchite merchants and their guards were present within the Carmanian
>Empire.

So? The mere fact that some Vanchites may know about the Orlanthi has no bearing on the issue of whether a magical conspiracy in Rinliddi hundreds of miles away were aware. Given that Vanch wasn't part of the Empire according to the Fortunate Succession Map p49 (which shows the region of Vanch being under the influence of an independant Alkoth), this is scant evidence for the statement that the Seven Mothers actually cared about the Orlanthi.

> >>Entekos is an unacknowledged aspect of the planetary goddess of the
> >>Middle Air

> > Entekos is acknowledged even in Dara Happa.

>As a goddess of the element air, but not as the planetary goddess.

Wrong. Read the Entekosiad foreword.

> >> Rufelza seeks to emulate in binding Orlanth. The disproving of
> >>Valare's theory can be undone, and IMO this is one aspect what the White
> >>Moonies are about.
>
> > How can Valare's theory be undone?

>By following most of her footsteps and then departing on another heropath.

The identification is not a matter of heroquesting but a matter of cosmic fact. Dendara is not Sedenya anymore than Yelm is not Magasta.

> > Dendara is provably not Rufelza.

>True. But she could be proven to be Sedenya.

No, she can't.

>Especially after Rufelza
>joins Lesilla's fate of becoming a plateau or a few mountain ranges. The
>color is right.

So is Heler yet I know of nobody arguing that Heler is a face of the Goddess. To assert that two deities are the one and the same requires something far more than colour.

> > The only connection is that they made each other
> > - Dendara fashioned Gerra, Rufelza's shape portion while
> > Sedenya made Dendara as part of making everything.

>We know that She Who Waits shares some of the Ernalda Rites.

Ernalda's Rites are a different kettle of fish and hence irrelevant to whether Rufelza and Dendara are one and the same.

>I don't say that Entekos is Sedenya. I say that Valare's original theory
>may be proven e.g. by some of the White Moonies.

They can't and the White Moonies have no known interest in Entekos.

>Or possibly even by
>Jar-eel, assuming she escapes losing her heart to Harrek ("who wore it as
>a jewel ever afterwards" KoS p.27).

JarEel was killed when Harrek tore her heart out. What is being described is a heroic death from which nobody returns.

> > The Lunars are not about to free the world of rebellion. They never
> > have any intention of freeing the world of rebellion. All they set out
> > to do is to reconcile two different worldviews and make the world
> > a better place.

>Reconcile Empire (Solars, Dara Happans) with Rebellion (Orlanthi
>representing the non-Dara Happans), or which other worldview do you mean?

I said Lunars, not Dara Happans, and I meant Lunars. And the Orlanthi do not have a monopoly of speaking for non-Dara Happans.

> >>There isn't much mythical ground for Ernalda or other powers of the Earth
> >>accepting Chaos.

> > The Uleria myth in Wyrms Footprints p34 is sufficient.

>Away from my sources: is this Uleria and the Boggles?

No. It is about Uleria and Chaos.

>Uleria is not a power of the Earth

Which is news to the Elves.

> >>The red earth of Naveria sought to hinder the rise of the Red Moon,
> >>and still seeks to draw it down.

> > They did? When the Naverians were conquered by the Dara
> > Happans in mythic times, their leader was the Lord of Seven
> > (GRAY p28) and also possibly the Protector Among Seven
> > (Entekosiad p34). What is the seven but a recognition of
> > Lunar Power?

>The seven High Gods of Pelanda included Rashoran(a), but not Natha.

The Pelandans are not Naverians and the going-ons at Mount Jernotius is evidence that Natha was accepted by them. Given that the Pelandans worship Daxadarius (who was also involved at the Jernotian going ons) to this day, I find it hard to believe that the conflict is evidence that the Naverians sought to hinder the rise of the Red Moon and still seek to draw it down.

> > The only other aspect is Carantes which
> > released the Hydra. Giving their resort to Chaotic Powers, it's
> > not clear to me what their opposition to the Red Goddess was.

>A repetition of the Chaos use e.g. by the Hidden Kings and in the Gbaji
>Wars, about to repeated again in Junora.

The Hidden Kings didn't use Chaos and for the other two cases, where is the opposition to the Red Goddess?

--Peter Metcalfe

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Received on Sat 19 Jun 2004 - 06:56:44 EEST

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