From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_quicksilver.net.nz>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:34:35 +1200


> >>The Andrinic sheriffs are appointees by the king,

> >No.

>They are elected by the clan?

Maybe, maybe not. The means of how they acquire office is not in publication and may vary from place to place. But most Kings have far better things to do than to make low level appointments all over the country.

> >[Sheriffs] are not "specially instructed" any more than any religious
> >or political personality in glorantha is.

>They are not full Larnsti, but receive the limited Larnsti teachings
>introduced by Andrin.

Which doesn't make them specially instructed any more than the Tribal Kings are held to be specially instructed by Alakoring. What I object to is your phrase which unnecessarily conveys the implication that the sheriffs are the Heortland equivalent of Ingsoc.

>Who gives these teachings? If the acting Sheriff
>trains his successors, where did the original training come from?

What teachings are you talking about? All that the Glorantha: Intro says is that the Sheriffs are "schooled in Larnsti magics" with the caveat that they are not "fully flegded Larnsti". I see little evidence for anything that says the Sheriffs are indoctrinated in the tenets of "Quotations from King Andrin".

> >What I was arguing against there was a particularly rigid interpretation
> >of the Larnsti based on the belief that Broyan's character sheet was
> >scriptually inerrant. I had no desire to debate the import of Larnsti
> >and Sheriffs in Heortland on that list because that list is about
> >Whitewall not Pharaonic Heortland.

>Still it's an issue about Volsaxi tribal politics, which are very much
>about Whitewall.

Since the Volsaxi do not have sheriffs, debating sheriffs there was pretty much off-topic for the list.

> >Hence basing arguments about what Sheriffs
> >and Larnsti get up to based on hermeneutical analysis of what I said
> >on that list aren't worth very much.

>Or anywhere else (like in the Glorantha Intro), it seems.

I'll bite. If you can actually read what the Glorantha: Intro actually said instead of imposing your own notions of how Pharaonic Heortland is really totalitarian with the sheriffs using the clan wyters as secret police, as evidenced by:

         Freer than the Andrinic shires in Heortland, actually, because
         the royal appointee in the Tarshite clans hasn't got the core
         magical role the sheriffs have in the clan rites. The royal reeve
         can be blindsided, the sheriff who is connected to the shire
         wyter can't that easily.
                 Glorantha Digest v10, #142

Then there might be opportunity for fruitful discussion. Until then read up the awareness of wyters (Thunder Rebels p98-99) for why this can't be so.

> >What I am concerned with is your attempt, yet again, to claim
> >as fact that the people of Pharaonic Heortland are oppressed.

>That's what the non-Pharaonic people say.

So what? The Lunars, Malkioni and even the Kareeshti are said to be an oppressed people but within their own terms, they are not oppressed.

>Freedom by command is a difficult concept. Similar to enforced

If there is any evidence of Freedom by Command in Heortland, you might have a point. But since there isn't, you don't.

> >What I was arguing against here was your assertion that the Sherrifs
> >always come from outside the clan and are oppressors.

>Let's split this: are you arguing against the assumption that they come
>from outside the clan? How exactly did this start?

No, I'm arguing against your assertion that they always come from outside the clan and it started because you asserted it.

>I know you argue against them being oppressors.

So why do you persist without a single shred of evidence?

>Of course they don't
>tolerate any worship which would threaten their position,

What worship would threaten their position? The only banned religion so far is the Black Arkati, which is a Good Thing in the Orlanthi eyes.

> >>This puts some strain on the "follow
> >>chosen leaders" principle so loved by the Heortlings.

> >So the people in Apple Lane have great difficulties with their sheriff?
> >Doesn't look that way to me.

>They are a crazy, clanless bunch.

Are they oppressed? No.

--Peter Metcalfe

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Received on Tue 22 Jun 2004 - 06:57:04 EEST

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