From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_quicksilver.net.nz>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 01:30:26 +1300

Andrew Solovay:

> > So? Angels are still denizens of the sky world and always have been.

>How are you defining "angel"?

The references to them in the literature starting with Dragon Pass up to and including the previously given reference in Anaxial's Roster p191.

> > Do the Sartarites call anything else angels? No.

>Do the Sartarites call anything "sheep"? No. Sartarites do not speak

Thank you for spelling out the patently obvious but if you are attempting to shed light, your efforts so far are visible only in the infra-red.

>So the question is, do they use a term which could reasonably be
>*translated* "angel".

And the answer is Certamus as given in Anaxial's Roster p191.

>A Christian (or Jewish or Muslim) scholar would define "angel" as
>meaning "bodiless, non-human spirit which serves God".

We are talking about Glorantha the last time I looked.

> A Sartarite, similarly, could apply the term
>to any servitor daimon (including the daimons of retribution, like the
>Flint Slingers), or more broadly, to any lessor god (the Thunder
>Brothers could reasonably be considered "angels" of Orlanth).

They do not. Neither Thunder Rebels or Storm Tribe actually mentions the term "angels" or describes them as angels.

>The man on the street uses the term "angel" less precisely, to mean
>either "supernatural being which looks like a winged human" (and the
>Orlanthi have *those* around--they're called "wind children"),

However they are called Nar Sylla or Wind Children, not Angels.

>or "someone who lives in Heaven".

In other words, denizens of the Sky world as I had previously stated?

> In common English usage, "angel" includes
>"good human who's died and gone to Heaven" (and that usage goes back at
>least as far as Hamlet),

As in "Good Night, Sweet Prince/and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest"? Or "Angels and Ministers of Grace defend us"? Hamlet does not state what you think it does and in any case, the topic is what the Gloranthans think angels are.

>You are proposing your own, idiosyncratic definition of angels

No, I am not.

>Certami are Gloranthan "angels".

As they are explicitly stated in Anaxial's Roster p191.

> Well, I define
>"angels" as "beings that can talk and have feathers", which is at least
>as well-established a definition as yours.

Before engaging in reductio ad absurdum, it's considered wise to actually understand what the other person is saying and his reasons for doing so.

--Peter Metcalfe

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Received on Sun 12 Dec 2004 - 06:57:33 EET

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