From: Sandy Petersen (sandyp@idgecko.idsoftware.com)
Date: Tue 18 Jul 1995 - 01:41:28 EEST
>Me: I have noticed an irksome tendency on the part of some to
> assume that if the GLs believed something, this must be evidence of
> the idea's _falseness_.
Nick B.
>This tendency is on the whole a healthy thing; questioning the
>received, simplified, streamlined version of Gloranthan mythology
is >a neat way to set up surprises for your players.
Not if your players question everything too. Also, it's
only cool to have neat exceptions if the GL are generally considered
to be accurate. I adhere to a fairly orthodox conception of
Gloranthan myth BECAUSE that way I can pop surprises upon the PCs.
If they assume that everything the GL did was a fiasco, this is much
harder to perform.
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: I understand that there has been some
reluctance to sign up for the forthcoming "Hunks of Reaching Moon
Megacorp" Swimsuit Calendar. I reassure potential subscribers that
myself, Greg S., and Steve Perrin are not current employees of
Reaching Moon, and there is little danger of encountering us au
naturel within its august pages. I hope.
This should reassure the nervous holdouts.
INTERSEX:
PMichaels:
>Some persons who are born anatomically male have a double Y
>chromosome pattern. Others have extras of both the X and Y
>chromosomes. Some persons born anatomically female have a Y
>chromosome, while others carry a triple X pattern.
For what it's worth, the following genetic peculiarities
(chromosomal-based, at least) are reasonably common:
Single X chromosome -- female, but generally sterile, very
short, with small breasts and immature reproductive organs. 97% die
before birth, but once born, survivors can live to a ripe old age.
Basically, these are females deprived of most of their female
hormones.
XXY -- the classic intersex. Anatomically male, but with
stunted gonads, wide "effeminate" hips, thin beard, etc. Basically
males, but with an excess of female hormones.
XXX -- females with too many X chromosomes are reasonably
common. I've heard of XXXX, XXXXX, and even XXXXXX. Physically, the
only result seems to be wider-than-usual hips, heavier-than-usual
breasts, and (maybe) slight mental dullness. I hasten to add that
these wide hips etc. aren't unnaturally so. An XXX woman would
typically have wider hips than her sisters, but she's no freak. All
but one X chromosome per cell is turned off (except for a tiny bit
near one end), so having multiple X's doesn't seem to make that big
a difference.
XYY -- This includes XYYY, etc. These "supermales" tend to
be tall and gawky, with slight mental impairment, and (usually) bad
acne. At one time 'twas believed that they were prone to violence,
but this is no longer believed. They _do_ show up in jail more often
than XY males but this is easily explained -- think about it. Since
they're not super-bright mentally, the typical crime they commit
are impulse -- breaking a window and snatching something, or getting
into a fistfight. Not much forethought. Then, they're big awkward
guys with scarred faces -- easy for witnesses to remember. It's not
that XYY folk are likelier to commit crimes -- it's that they're
LOTS likelier to get _caught_.
Then there are weird combinations like XXYY etc. The
general rule is that if you have a Y chromosome, you're considered
male, though this may be masked by other genes. The more Y genes you
have, the dumber and bigger you get. The more X genes you have, the
more feminine and fatty you get.
NOTE: it is my belief that Great Trolls are XYY troll males
and that trollkin are X or Y (a simple Y human won't survive, but
this needn't be the case amongst trolls).
RUNES and gloranthan beliefs re: same
>1) Dialectic (the two Runes cause activity by their
>opposition. This is the classic God Learner interpretation.)
Nils: Is this the God Learner view, or the western view in general?
Both, IMO. I won't care to speculate on whether the
westerners have adopted the GL view, or whether the GL brought
western opinions as baggage with them to the RuneQuest Sight.
> 2) Complementary (neither Rune makes sense alone. Both are
>be present in everything. If one Rune gets too much intensity, the
>other Rune is "attracted" to it, in a Yin-Yang sort of way. This is
>the classic Lunar concept.)
> 3) Continuum (the two Runes are really part of the same
>substance, just different ends of it -- like a spectrum, or the
>dichotomy of "light/dark", in which there is every degree of
>lightness and darkness between the two extremes.The classic Kralori
>ideal.)
> 4) Mirror (the two Runes are exact opposites. This is not
>exactly the God-Learner point of view, and in fact implies that the
>two Runes are really the _same_ thing, seen in different ways. The
>classic East Isles interpretation.)
NILS: What I propose for the people of Teshnos is then:
>5) Opposition, leading to imbalance, but with the insertion of a
>third force, the members of an unbalanced pair complement each
>other.
I myself must think on this.
Dara Happa: I believe that the Dara Happans see opposition within
opposition. For instance -- my god is Lodril, the rival to Yelm. But
taking a larger view, I respect the gods of the earth (Dendara,
Lodril, Gorgorma, and the like), as opposed to the gods of the sky
(Yelm, Dayzatar, Ourania). But even a more cosmic view demonstrates
that I worship the gods of life and goodness (Yelm and his kin) as
opposed to the villainous gods of darkness and strike. There is
opposition within opposition within opposition.
Theyalan/Orlanthi: I think most Orlanthi have adopted the GL view.
Doraddi: Every Rune contains an opposite to every other Rune. Life
is in opposition to Death, just as it is in opposition to Fate,
Mobility, Stasis, Truth, and Disorder. Take any two Runes and place
them alongside one another, and you find that they become opposites,
working on one another to produce the world.
Aldryami: They adhere to one central Rune (Aldrya). All other Runes
have relevance only insofar as they affect the center.
WEIRD CULTURAL DATA
Folk interested in getting a good pop look at some weirdness of
different cultures, with IMMEDIATE application to Gloranthan gaming,
should read Edward T. Hall's books -- "The Silent Language", and
"The Hidden Dimension" are reasonably short and teem with anecdotes
and cool stuff. They are primarily aimed at describing the exotic
cultures of 20th century industrial states, but you'd be amazed by
how much we are applicable to Glorantha -- at least inasmuch as we
seem to be blind to our own cultural assumptions. Trust me.
Fantome:
>Can you please tell me the source references for Elamle as this
type >of stuff interests me.
Elamle-ata's background is largely unpublished I fear. Here
is the story bowdlerized and shortened and devoid of all the cool
stuff. NOTE: all this action takes place on the peninsula of Elamle.
In the First Age, Elamle-ata came wandering into the forest
and met the elves. The elves believed that all the humans in the
world were extinct, and that she, Elamle-ata, was the last human.
She went throughout the land and all the elves became her friend.
She healed plants, elves, all that was appropriate and all loved
here.
Years later, the humans came as refugees to the land, and
began to cut down trees. Incensed, the elves massed their forces to
wipe out the upstarts (a task easily within their capabilities), but
Elamle-ata came to the Council and asked for mercy. She then went
everywhere in the land, asking every Council what they would require
of the humans in order to permit them to stay. And she went to all
the human peoples as well. If a Shanasse asked more than the humans
were able to give, Elamle-ata paid the price herself. No one knows
what all the prices were that she gave up for the humans' survival,
but after her travels, she was gone. All the elf dynasties and all
the human cities now had special rules they needed to follow to live
one by the other, set by Elamle-ata's negotiations, gifts, and
diplomacy. Thus, human and elf lived together amicably. The elves
did not need the humans' tribute, but the humans needed to survive,
and so obeyed the elves' rules. In gratitude, the humans named the
land Elamle.
Then Errinoru united the elf tribes and spread over the
jungle. Things were great for a while. Until Errinoru and his family
perished in the blight. The elves of Elamle were sore beset, and
were nearly wiped out themselves. All that saved them was the
continued tribute of the humans, sent to them in traditional
fashion, as the humans continued honoring Elamle-ata. Thus, her
legacy saved both elf and human, and the elves, too, began calling
the land Elamle.
NOTE: it is entirely possible that the Elamle-ata who
befriended the elves, and the Elamle-ata who performed her journey
to all rulers were different women who lived generations apart.
NOTE TOO: this is a gross abbreviation of the story. Try
telling Arkat's Saga in two paragraphs and see what _you_ get.
(Elamle-ata is at least as important to the people here as Arkat is
to the West.)
>And Sandy I quite like Jane Austen too
She is, IMO, the most nearly perfect writer in English
there exists. Shakespeare is grander, but her sentences cannot be
improved for concision and elegance.
Peter Metcalfe
>I think KoS says that the Dragonewts can't write. QED they don't
>However the modern west does not really work with runes these
days, >IMO, as the major use for them is defunct.
I strongly do not agree with Peter on this point. I believe
that Runes are still powerful and active throughout Glorantha. Just
because the West believes in the Invisible God doesn't mean they
don't recognize that the world is built out of Runes.
>use runes.
Does not necessarily follow. We know that many of the more
complex Runes (beast, frex) are of dragonewt origin. Also I doubt
mere humanity would have invented a "Dragonewt" rune on our own.
Peter gives a reasonably complete description of the Maslo, given
that hardly anything is published on it. I'll present the facts as I
know them in the form of a "critique" of Peter's comments (not an
attack on him, but an explication).
>Furthermore we know that the civilized humans are divided into two
>groups: The Elf-lovers of the Elamle pennisula and the Elf Haters
>of the Onlaks pennisula.
Roughly correct. In addition, Laskal (especially) and other
lands (to a lesser extent) have more primitive human tribes living
in the interior. Not in Dinal or Onlaks, though -- no humans
allowed. In Dinal's case, it's not because the jungle is hostile to
humans, it's just that the jungle is so primal that humans cannot
exist.
>The Elf Lovers would be quite peaceful except that they suffer a
>huge monster trashing everything on the littoral every now and
then.
Well, kind of. The folk of Elamle aren't particularly
pacifistic, though they don't war on the elves. Perhaps it's more
accurate to say that they've never managed to get their act together
and become imperialistic bigots because of the constant pressure of
the Mother of Monsters, which tends to interrupt empire-building.
> The Elf Haters are now organized under the leadership of Hoom
Jhis, >the Dynast (which really means 'Bigshot' despite its
connotations >with 'Dynasty') of Flanch.
They're not as organized as Hoom Jhis would like, though.
They're certainly nowhere near as organized as a "real" empire.
>The Flanchi are one of the Great Naval Powers of Glorantha and
came >close to dominating the Pamaletelan Coast but his massive
Fleet of
>Conquest and Exploitation was destroyed by the Vadeli at Oenriko >Rock.
Yes. Maybe not a "Great" naval power, but at least a
moderate one. Not up to beating Haragala, but could probably give
Loskalm a run for the money.
>I think the Flanchi have a number of (one-sided) trading treaties
>with the Cities of the Elf Coast.
The Onlaksians trade with the Elamlians all the time.
They're friends, and the Elamle humans naturally enough side with
the Onlaksians vs. the evil elves of the "other" peninsula. They
don't want to be conquered by Flanch, though. Not much of a problem
at the moment. Flanch can barely maintain what it has.
>I don't think the Flachi actually hate the Elamlites as such, they
>just think the latter are just deluded Monster Worshippers whereas
>one should aspire to be real Monster-beaters like the Flanchi and
>the (related) Kimoti.
The Onlaksians have a range of beliefs re: Elamle, varying
from "I wish _our_ elves were docile, too." to "I hear them Elamle
humans are required to let elf lords screw their wives on their
wedding night, and give their first-born babies to a cannibal tree."
Everyone pities the Kimoti. They have it tough.
LORAL: no humans now live on Loral. It is Monster Island. Think
Godzilla & co.
Edrenlin Islands: Waertagi live here sans city-ships. They do,
however, help crew fishing and trading vessels all over the Maslo
area, and their assistance is one of the reasons that the Yanchi
fleet is so tough. (top-flight sailors)
Andrew Behan
>However Greg failedto mention quite how Sir Ethilrist got into
Hell >in the first place. OK, he could have kept travellling in a
straight >line until he reached the edge of the world orjumped down
Hellcrack >but not every hero has travelled that far, surely?
Not every hero goes to Hell. Ethilrist is exceptional.
Elamle-ata, Jaldon Toothmaker, Hon-Eel, Tada, none of them visited
Hell to my recollection. And _none_ of the (admittedly few) East
Isles heroes went to Hell. Of course, the EI don't really believe in
the underworld. At least not the same way.
Ryan Moore:
>I am getting ready to introduce my players to Dorastor. Since they
>are currently in the Pavis region, I was planning on having a kind
>of "epic journey" across glorantha. Anyone have any interesting
>ecounters or things that might happen while on the way from Pavis
to >Dorastor.
1) Pavis to Barbarian Town -- meet one of the lesser-known
tribes of Prax. Say the Cannibal Cult (who spend all night trying to
get one of the party members mad at them so that they can consider
the party to be "enemies") or a sad group of Long-Nose wanderers
with a single bull Long-Nose. ("Anybody here ever seen a cow Long
Nose? We'll pay top dollar?!")
2) Barbarian Town to Furthest -- you're in Dragon Pass, so
see Dragonewts. Maybe the famed Dragonewt Statues (a band of
immobile dragonewts who are progressing across a field at the rate
of about an inch per year -- if one is killed, he flops over dead,
then his replacement comes running out from the Dragonewt City as
fast as he can come -- to stop cold once he reaches the right
position.) Or maybe some Dragonewts doing something incomprehensible
with a Gorp.
3) Furthest to Aggar -- see the giant cranes that live in
the Aggar marshes. See Jolanti(!). See ancient Lunar nobility who
ride bisons and wear gold-and-satin idealized versions of Praxian
chieftain gear without knowing why.
4) Aggar to mid-Lunar Empire -- anything goes. How about
one of them orgies in which some boob dies of "a surfeit of
virgins"? Or how about a Chaos Gladiatorial Contest ("It's Amateur's
Night! Come One Come All. Win 100 Lunars for each round you survive
against Guganox the Grotesque.")
5) mid-Lunar Empire to the borders of Dorastor: here you
_have_ to have the Bat and his cult rousting locals, drafting the
gendarmes to produce passers-by, etc. Wotta riot.
Dick Hutchison
THE KRALORI AND THE FALSE DRAGON RING AND THE DRAGONKILL WAR
Andrew Joelson
"Tatius sen[ds] a demon which had two arms, and an extra one,
against them."
>Thoughts as to what demon this is? Must be nasty, as it apparently
>smokes Jaldon and a good portion of Jaldon's Army
Just a point to ponder: The Lunar Empire itself is said to
have three heads -- two visible, and one invisible. The similarity
between this and Tatius' demon are too obvious to elucidate. NOTE:
the demon's extra arm is not just a third arm, of course, or else it
would be a three-armed demon. But it's not. It's a two-armed demon,
with an extra arm.
In my opinion, the Exarchs managed things so that the
Dragons were all summoned _away_ for the Dragonkill war. Then, the
War in Heaven was able to take place without the hapless False
Dragon Ring being able to rely on Kralorela's native dragons (who
always try to save the land) being available. I hold that the entire
Dragonkill War was (from one point of view) a plot by the exarchs
to cleanse their own land and reconquer it.
>David Cake suggests that the Crater has a bottom, I had always
>thought that it was bottomless via some mystic means. I seem to
>recall that climbing the rim and looking down into the Crater was a
>sure way to go mad. Corrections, anybody?
The Crater has a bottom, I thought. You go mad by looking
down into it because you see the secret city that is built there.
Besides the crater's interior is on the surface of the moon.
>By the way, I had heard once that the Castles of Lead have some
>sort of connection, allowing you to move from one to another
>directly. Is this true?
Sort of. Basically, there is only one Castle of Lead.
Peter M.
> I haven't heard about people complaining that Illumination is
>Obscenely Unbalanced.
You haven't? Where have you been? Besides, if Illumination
_isn't_ obscenely unbalanced why would it even exist at all? "Of
course Illumination is unfair, my lad. But it can be unfair on
_your_ side if you only say the word."
------------------------------
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