From: Peter Metcalfe (P.Metcalfe@student.canterbury.ac.nz)
Date: Thu 04 Jan 1996 - 03:09:15 EET
Joerg Baumgartner:
==================
In accordance with the yellow flag rule, I have dropped many topics
My point was that beliefs of the city folk (ie Brigh Empire and all
The only time he has come close in mentioning Sartarite Rebels as
I also said that only in the modern Orlanthi 'Civilization' (ie the
(which are likely to be of interest to a few - like inhuman
experiences of the EWF) in hopes of keeping the main point on track.
that)are unlikely to be a measure of the sophistication (primarily
religious) of the rural folk (y'know the man in the field). Nothing
Joerg has written has addressed this.
an example of a modern tattooed Orlanthi as counterpoint to the
claim that the Orlanthi _leaders_ of bygone ages were tattooed and
the modern urban Orlanthi are not. [I had already mentioned Kallyr
Starbrow as an exception.] Were the Kings of Sartar tattooed? Was
Duke Dorasar? The only people he can point to are religious fanatics
(mostly humakti) and _not_ the mainstream leaders of Orlanthi
Society. Whereas in the Broken Council Freeform, virtually all
the Orlanthi Leaders (say for the urbane Dorastorans) had such a
tattoo.
tribal system of Alakoring) are clan surpluses being redistributed
within the clan as opposed to the 'Orlanthi' empires where it went
to the cities in the form of taxes.
Joerg:
>Nope. Both the Second Council and the EWF were very effective in calling
>in material and magical surplus via their religious network and accumulate
>them in their cities. ^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And what does the poor Orlanthi struggling in the fields get out the
surpluses being enjoyed by the City Toffs? The Toffs spend the money
in learning things like Attain Perfection of Flame with lighten the
plight of the rural Orlanthi not one jot. Thank you for making my
point.
>The clans became mere systems of reference in face of
>the oneness with the mystical project the religious leaders pursued. Except
>for those who dissented and braved hardfisted suppression. Even the Old
>Day Traditionalists adopted the EWF civilisation in order to destroy it
>from within...
To the religious leaders, yes the clans were 'mere systems of
And source for this Old Day Traditionalists adopted the EWF to
reference'. They OTOH were more than that to the actual members
of the clans. The EWF tax farmer may see the average village headmen
as a member of the Great Unwashed who appears to demonstrate more
acumen and intelligence than most whereas the people in the village
probably see him as the head of authority in the clan.
destroy it from within?
>The tragedy about civilized Orlanthi is that they lose their cultural
>identity and become relatively easy prey for whatever "new" religion is
>dominant [examples snipped].
Complete Bullshit. Do the Aeolians think that they are not Orlanthi?
The majority of Joerg's reply made great mention about the civilised
Was the fall of the Kingdom of Sartar due to a loss of cultural
identity? Did the cult of Orlanth Dragonfriend think they were
draconists supplanting the worship of Orlanth? Did Lokaymadon think
he was destroying Orlanthi worship? Are the modern day arabs not
muslim because they do not practice the lifestyle their forefathers
did in the days of the Prophet?
achievements of the past empires among the Orlanthi managing to
completely _miss_ my point that the plight of the rural Orlanthi
changed little. He then seems to notice it and penned this
afterthought:
>Ok, maybe this did not touch all (85%) of the Orlanthi, but definitely
>more than half of them, enough so that a generalization can be used.
>Unless you describe rural as "living two days hard ride from the next
>stead"...
More than half? Only 10% lived in the cities! The only material
change to the rural Orlanthi would have been to whom they paid
their taxes, how much they paid their taxes and what type of soldiers
would have been sent to rape pillage and plunder if they didn't pay
their taxes.
- --Peter Metcalfe
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