From: Argrath@aol.com
Date: Fri 05 Jan 1996 - 03:21:15 EET
In V2 #310, Dane "Danger" Johnson writes very intelligently, calling for a
spirited rebuttal :), as follows:
> In a small village of 100 people or so is
>there enough work for even a single independant worker of magic who curses
>people's cows, spreads bad luck, or makes a healing poultice? I'm not sure
>there is. ...
Not full time. There aren't enough pairs of feet to require a full-time
cobbler, either, but there's one farmer who gets almost all the shoe trade.
As for your examples, I'll assume for a moment that the RQ rules describe
the real Glorantha (a condition contrary to fact). Those rules don't,
however, give a decent curse or divination, just to name two areas of magic
that need doing.
>Do you need a minor oracle when you can go and ask the Lankor Mhy (or
>whomever is in charge of divination) priest/intiate?
"How much for a divination?" <GM checks Gamemaster Book> "30 pennies." "But
I only make 4 pennies a day!" "Tough nuggies, pal."
[Later, in the alleyway behind the temple.] "Psst, buddy, I can get you a
divination for only 5 pennies."
You choose the response:
1. "Sorry, I don't traffic with evil atheistic sorcerers."
2. "Would you take 3?"
>There are a lot of
>people on modern Earth who will tell you your future (by phone yet!), but
>there is also a suspcious lack of nationwide organized religions that can
>actually fortell the future. The same is not true on Glorantha.
Now this, I think, is a fair point only as to the 3 major monotheistic sects.
There's lots of Hindus and Taoists who practice divination within their
religion, but India and China still support independent magicians. How odd,
neh? (Also note that divination is a much wider field than just foretelling
the future.)
>I think what you really want is an expansion of the Spirit magic spells
>available to include some more of the sorts of magic that "Typical Fantasy"
>stories attribute to wandering gypsies or old hags or malicious dwarfs who
>can spin straw into gold. This isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it's also
>not necessarily going to mesh with established Gloranthan Dogma (at this
>point I expect MGF will get invoked :)
Typical Fantasy: ugh. I believe I pointed out that Glorantha-as-described
doesn't address these people, at least in theistic areas. And yes, MGF is an
appropriate argument, along with Maximum/Optimum Diversity. But I'll stick
to my main argument, which is that in all Earth times and places, regardless
of the prevailing religion's attitude toward it, independent magic thrives,
or at least gets by.
>Besides, in a magic-rich environment like Glorantha too much of this curse
>your neighbor and love charm kind of thing and the local constabulary is
>going to cast a divination of their own to find out who is causing all the
>trouble.
"Constabulary" of course is an anachronism. If you substitute "powers that
Please note that in most Earth times and places, there is not the hostility
be," I'd agree, but only if the magician steps outside the accepted bounds
and curses somebody they shouldn't. And even then, there may be protection
from other powers--like the ones that ordered the hit.
shown to independent magicians shown in Western Europe under Christianity.
Even other monotheistic traditions don't share Western Christendom's problem
with magic: Islam has always been tolerant of magicians, and Judaism has been
selective about what magic is witchcraft and what isn't (witness Kabalah, for
example). So you shouldn't use a Western Christian lens to view Glorantha.
There's a wealth of other human experiences out there, and many are valid
starting points for Gloranthan exploration.
Loren writes:
>IMO, in the real world magic is inextricably bound up with religion.
Uh, Loren, how bout reading _Stolen Lightning_ or at least citing some source
other than IMO? <sarcastic remark deleted>
> You'd be buying long-duration bladesharps, resurrections, curses on the
>neighbors' cattle, and market blessings all from the same person.
This is known as the straw man argument. I didn't say anything about
I can't buy the argument that all independent magicians in theistic areas are
bladesharp (ugh), resurrection (double ugh), or market blessings. In fact, I
distinctly remember writing that independent magicians would be specialists.
sorcerers. For one thing, what'd the theists do for magicians before the
sorcerers got there? Answer: they had their own local magicians.
- --Martin Crim
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End of Glorantha Digest V2 #311
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