From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@sartar.toppoint.de)
Date: Sat 06 Jan 1996 - 21:13:54 EET
Martin Crim:
> Subject: Peter Metcalfe/Joerg Baumgartner: huh?
> Guys:
> I have completely lost the thread of what you're arguing about. How
> about following rule 3, or better yet take it to private e-mail?
Actually, I am almost as puzzled as you for why Peter won't accept that
the rural Orlanthi of First Age Kerofinela were more civilized than the
3rd Age cultural revisionists.
I will take Peter's "really big post" to private channel, and just
(re-)state my opinion (not in any way altered by Peter's arguments):
The Heortling peoples of the Theyalan Council were a lot less
capricious and warlike than those of 3rd Age Wintertop or Sartar.
They were a lot less narrowminded about worshipping different deities
than just the cultural big man and his wife, whatever their names, as
the acceptance of the Lightbringer deities in Theyalan society clearly
shows: Neither Issaries nor Lhankor Mhy, Chalana Arroy or Eurmal were
necessarily members of "Orlanth's" (or whatever his name) stead before
the LBQ.
Ok, the big guy may have had a fool, a healer, a knowing companion and
maybe even a reeve who took care of the spare grain, but the
identification of these with the Lightbringer canon can logically only
have happened when the LBQ knowledge was spread, i.e. by the First
Council.
When the trolls and the dragonewts left the 2nd Council, only the
(original) Heortlings of Kerofinela followed suit. The majority of all
Orlanthi kept supporting the God Project, and kept providing the armies
of the Council, and later of the Bright Empire.
Lokamayadon was the mastermind of Orlanthi religion at that time, and
through early attempts at creative heroquesting within his own cult's
myths he had managed to interpose himself between all Orlanth worship
and the receiving deity. (An Orlanthi-all, that is, since rebels like
the Hendriki likely found a way to avoid him, by being refused access
to the established holy places. This resulted in very restricted access
to the deity's magic, though.)
Anyway, under Lokamayadon's guidance, the Orlanth cult was one of the
cults which changed most, and this reached all levels of the cult. The
direct initiation rituals changed everywhere, and caused many deaths
before people stopped resisting Lokamayadon's easier way of initiation
to Orlanth through worship of himself as Chief High Priest of Orlanth,
the Council in general, and of course through the Bright God. For those
Orlanthi who didn't resent Lokamayadon's intervention, this meant a
safe and reliable way to the benefits of Orlanth's magics, with the
Chief High Priest intercepting a lot of the most dangerous opponents.
The material life of the Councilic Orlanthi had improved rapidly beyond
any previously known wealth. Dwarven technology from Greatway in
conjunction with wheels from the Solar culture of the upper Oslir
Valley and the heavy Orlanthi oxen teams made a heavier oxen plow
possible. This shifted the focus of the Orlanthi agricultural magic
enough that the (Esrolite) earth goddess(' hierarchy, likely) felt so
neglected that they sent Gouger the God-child into Kerofinela as
retribution. (Aram ya Udram dealt with it, as is well known from the
Ivory Plinth founding history.) The exchange of technology also
influenced architecture, both of simple farming cottages and of
elaborate hilltop fortresses controlling the expanding trade routes.
The Heortlings built and supported oppidae for their tribal kings -
tribes of the magnitude of Third Age Orlanthi nations like Sartar,
Tarsh, or Holay, not the tiny post-Alakoring tribelets so popular in
Sartar. The vast Hendriki "tribe" in Heortland is, while not
contemporary with the Dawn Age tribes, at least following this
tradition.
After the Gbaji wars, a lot of Orlanthi fell back to barbarism, though
not all. Those closest to the core of the Bright Empire did fall into
barbarism, so much that the East Ralians, the Talastari and the Anadiki
have remained barbaric well into the 3rd Age.
The majority of the Ralian Orlanthi (=Enerali?) had little problems to
adopt the Dark Empire's doctrines, and became Stygians.
Peter posed they were ruled by trolls? Hardly. Arkat had taken human
shape again, and descendant dynasty and the majority of his advisors
were humans as well.
You could as well say that Heortland (the part in Kethaela) was ruled
by trolls until Belintar slew the Only Old One. If so, then being ruled
by trolls did indeed produce at least one of the most civilized
Orlanthi cultures you can find on Glorantha.
In Saird and northern Kerofinela there was a distinct return to
barbaric, pre-Dawn ways, as the Dagori Inkarth overlords practiced a
"divide and collect tribute" policy. The reaction of the Orlanthi was
to adopt the civilizing ways of the Dara Happan-influenced Sun Dome
cultists swarming south, and organizing resistance against the troll
overlords. Especially the _rural_ peoples embraced the light gods of
the Sun Dome to protect their harvests and freedom from the trolls.
In general, Harmast pushed his version of Lightbringer worship (still
with a lot of the real power in the hands of the priests, not the
mundane rulers) and replaced all of Lokamayadon's less personal worship
of Orlanth with it. He failed (in part) to do so where suitable
alternatives were ready, like in the region of Solar liberation from
the trolls, in the core regions of Arkat's Dark Empire, (possibly)
among the Hendriki who never accepted Lokamayadon's ways, or in the
very wild outbacks where Orlanth provided just one of several models of
society suitable.
From the less oppressive Shadowlands, the Jrusteli missionary-traders
had no problems installing their version of the Issaries and Lhankor
Mhy cults right within the Orlanthi culture. From this base they let
the dragonspeaking experiment escape, one of their most remarkable
successes cum failures which resulted in the EWF.
To quote from the History of Glorantha in the Genertela Box:
"People in the region soon found themselves thinkin draconically
without even trying. The subject attracted people of every interest:
philosophers as well as hustlers, saints and con men, ordinary
housewives and would-be heroes."
With other words: everybody in Kerofinela with a hint of talent became
a draconic thinker and speaker.
Another piece from the Glorantha Book:
"As the Great Dragon slowly awakened, the world was to be enlivened by
the draconic energies and bring about a Golden Age of perfection for
all participants."
The world was to be enlivened... sounds very much like an attempt to
replace the lost life force of the earth (the reason for the Bless
Crops necessity) by draconic life force. And it seems to have worked
for those regions most steeped in draconic wisdom. Quite a change to
enliven a whole region instead of a single field, eh? (BTW: this is
what the Lunars try to do with their Kalikos expeditions, too.)
Thus, all of Kerofinela was dotted by village shrines to funnel the
draconic energies of the worshippers to the land.
Peter wondered about my remarks that entire populaces (including the
rural population) left the physical plane. The source is (again)
Glorantha Book:
p.22, last paragraph:
"Many of the first-established had already passed out of contact into
the cosmic dragon soul while newcomers in the outlands had not yet even
responded to the Waltzing and Hunting Bands."
p.23
"Another, the Converters, reversed their own increased sanctity to
assist the suffering populace. Some went among their nearest followers,
hastening them out of physical reality while others went among the
ravaged borderlands to perform miracles and to mock martyrdom."
This states clearly that entire communities left the physical plane to
join the dragons (before 1043, that is). This seems to have been one of
the goals of the EWF. Who knows, maybe by 1043 the Inhuman King of
Dragon Pass had decided that his kin had been strengthened enough, and
thus ended the experiment.
(The Ingolf Saga from KoS tells us that merely an Orlannthi-"all"
leaders were killed and/or lost their dragonic powers...)
Evidently several of the dragons participating in the destructions of
I still stand to my thesis that the tribal people of Sartar, while the
the True Golden Horde had sprung from the merged draconic spirits of
the humans of Dragon Pass. Sandy's Kralori dragon from Dragon Magazine
206 needn't be the only human turned dragon in that war. The one from
Ormsgone Valley definitely belonged to this type, made from the bones
of the land and the souls of the peoples (without destroying the
latter).
most familiar Orlanthi types we know, are also the least typical
Orlanthi. The urban Orlanthi of Sartar (including all the farming
communities within two hexes of the city on the boardgame map, who have
close family ties to the city-dwellers) are the ones whose society is
sketched in the player background for RQ2, with guilds, mercenary
companies and so on. Since the cities (apart from Boldhome) are located
in the most fertile and most densely settled areas, these amount to
quite a large portion of the populace.
David Hall's numbers for the tribes and population of Sartar show about
10% of the Sartarite population as city-dwellers. Especially the
Wilmskirk federation seems to quite fixated to their city - the tribes
(which were active in the Starbrow rebellion) were represented by the
mayor of their city in the Sartar High Council, and they acted in
fairly unison throughout the rebellion. (Especially when compared to
the Jonstown confederation, which almost broke apart when the Malani
refused to have part in the uprising. BTW, to call the Torkani part of
the Jonstown confederation is a bit like calling the Sun Domers a
Sartarite tribe. Neither would agree...)
IMO the Balmyr (who live in the broad valley around and north of
Wilmskirk) have contacts with the city on a daily basis. The city's
temples are so close that the clans are unlikely to support much more
than large shrines.
BTW: The numbers which astonished me most are those for Alone (well
known for its criminal network in the guise of Griselda's numerous
relatives) and Duck Point.
For the low Alone number (500 aound 1621) I have one good explanation:
this is a big caper by the Griselda Family (capital F as in Sicilian
Mafia) to avoid tax revenues to the Empire. I think it's quite likely
that the actual number of inhabitants is as large as that of Jonstown,
made up by criminals and rebels hiding under the blinded eyes of the
Lunar provost and his tax collector.
The Duck point numbers seem simply false to me. Given that Duck Point
is a well known Lunar stronghold in Old Sartar (enough so to keep the
Lismelder neutral in the rebellion scenarios in the Dragon Pass
boardgame), and the fact that the riverine trade through the Haunted
Lands to Nochet continues even despite constant duck pirate raids on
the river barges, makes it more than likely that a Lunar regiment or
two have taken up the conveniently empty fortress as their HQ and the
place to settle their camp followers.
However, if these people aren't eligible to pay taxes to the Empire,
then the omission is understandable in the sources described in the
introduction.
- --
Joerg Baumgartner
joe@toppoint.de
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