From: Dane Johnson (dane@frame.com)
Date: Wed 17 Jan 1996 - 08:26:52 EET
So Declares Argrath@aol.com:
>
> The cults for hire span a spectrum from highly establishment to
> illegality, making Sandy's thesis attractive. But there are two problems
> with Sandy's thesis: 1) you don't need a priest/wizard/shaman for every
> problem any more than you need a doctor for every headache or a lawyer every
> time your neighbor does you dirty; 2) people everywhere have independent
> magic, and sufficiently sophisticated peoples have always had independent
> magicians.
1 - Is the magic of an 'independant' magician qualitatively or
quantitatively different than that of a priest/wizard/shaman? What about
a minor alcolyte or an apprentice? In most medieval-type settings (and
certainly in many Gloranthan settings) you are dealing with far smaller
groups of people than you are in a modern environment. In a small town
back in, say, the 1800s, even, you might have only HAD one doctor, and
you really would go to him for minor headaches and whatnot.
2 - 'People Everywhere of Sufficient Sophistication' are not living in
If I can point this out without sounding too derogatory, I think that
or on Glorantha with active gods and powerful, obvious magic. And are
the Orlanthi more sophisticated than, say, the Eskimo? Do the Eskimo
have independant magicians? (I don't know, myself, but for some reason
I doubt it.)
these points aren't so much a problem with Sandy's argument as they are
the axioms you are making your argument on. As near as I can tell, you
are arguing that there should be sources of magic in Gloranthan society
which are not connected to the general local theistic culture and that
these sources should occur in such number and in such a way that foreign
sorcerers are not a sufficient explanation for them. The reason that
these should exist is a combination of things, including a) that most
human societies have independant magicians and b) there would be a
demand for such magic workers in the various Gloranthan societies.
Several people, Sandy among them, have argued that no such magicians
would exist because any such demands are actually met internally by the
existing theistic cultures. If no demand exists, then whether or not
such magicians have existed in Real World(tm) cultures is not really
germane.
Your primary problem with this point seems to be a restatement of the
fact that most (or all) human cultures have had such workers of magic
and that for this to be the case there must be some inherent demand
for them. This seems, to me, to be ignoring the point that people are
arguing: that this demand is real, but is being met by the existing
cultures, perhaps in ways that Real World examples don't.
<Shrug>
Of course, my Gloranthan Lore skill is low, so I could be wrong. And,
of course, I could also be misinterpreting your point of view.
Dane
------------------------------
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 16:28:55 EEST