many things...

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Mon 05 Feb 1996 - 13:44:20 EET

Ian Gorlick:

>Nobody has yet addressed what I consider to be
>the more subtly dangerous problem of saints being raised to the status of

>In 1600 years, I believe some branches of
>the Malkioni must have gone through this process of degeneration and
>backlash at least once.

I imagine this process (that the Saints become Gods) occurs when
there is a loss of literacy among the upper classes to support the
education of Wizards in sorcery (amongst other things). Then
everybody starts leaning on the Saints to provide them with magic
(which doesn't require so much education and understanding). But if
a Wizard is able to teach and provide his Flock with Sorcery (as
well as keep them out of Manifest Error), this process is halted IMO.
Afterall, Sorcery is the best form of magic there is.

I imagine there are several Saints-as-Gods regions. Highland Fronela
and the remote parts of Safelster are good places. Ramalia might be
another region. I agree the Phenomna has happened in the wealthier
parts of the west. Seshnela was virtually pagan during the first two
centuries of the Dawn and during the Chaos Wars (375 ST - 450 ST), the
Civil Wars (632 ST to 734 ST) and the Interregnum (1049 ST to 1412 ST),
I have no problem in envisioning Saints as Gods in Seshnela. Losklam
probably underwent its Saints-as-Gods Period during the Chaos Wars and
IMO after the expulsion of the God Learners to the Sixth Ecclesiastical
Council (865 ST to 1427 ST)

David Dunham:

>I agree those are still open questions (and I am not satisfied with my
>current Eurmal), but for me, fili is not the answer. I just can't see
>taking your newborn to a trickster to have its birth signs read.

How about the Eurmali sneaks in and curses the newborn babe?

Mikko J Sarela:

>In my version of glorantha books, Uleria is placed as a god for both
>Orlanth and Yelm pantheon. However I have understood Yelmians to be
>very conservative about sex for example. So my opinion about this is
>that either that is not the case OR the God Learners are playing with
>gods AGAIN. Well that wouldn't be anything new would it.

You left one option out. The Yelmians while being conservative about
sex have unable to stamp out the practice. Look at the Medieval Church
in Europe: Were they able to stamp out prostitution?

Ingo Tschinke:

The Knights: I get the impression that they're more like a Borist
Assasin Order. They aim to fight Chaos and an Impure (unshriven
non-Borist) Noble who persecutes Borists is surely seen as Chaotic
from the Borists' eyes. Coupled with the fact that the Nobles
who do so probably claim to have held their lands from Arkat makes
them Servants of the Devil. Good Target Practice for the Knights
until Arkat returns IMO. They are probably the closest an Impure
Noble gets to a member of the Borist Church as well as the most

With regards to the Borist attitude towards sin, that was one of the
aims behind the Shriving spell when I thought it up. A Borist can
slaughter innocents, be Shriven and pass into Solace (according to his
cult doctrine) if he dies the next day. That's one of the main reasons
why most Mainstream Malkioni hate the Borists. There is a flip side in
that the more heinious the offense the greater the Chaos you will create.
The Conservative Borists simply don't care as this means they will have
more Chaos to play around with. Whereas the Reformers (who seek to
become acceptable to the mainstream) actively discourage the blatant
abuse of Shriving (like not using the Shriving unless the offender has
repented of his act).

>There must be very evil guys if you would imagine that they must always
>lie and disguise themself, this will corrupt them much more than chaos
>ever can to this to them.

Evil? Not really. The Borists are not too much different from what the
Orlanthi do to the Lunars ('No, we don't know who ambushed the Patrol').

- --Peter Metcalfe


End of Glorantha Digest V2 #361

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