Re: Perspectives, East Ralios (fwd)

From: Majordomo (major@hops.wharton.upenn.edu)
Date: Tue 20 Feb 1996 - 20:31:37 EET


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>From loren@hops.wharton.upenn.edu Sun Feb 11 20:49:40 1996
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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 17:51:24 -0800
To: owner-glorantha-digest@hops.wharton.upenn.edu
From: dunham@pensee.com (David Dunham)
Subject: Re: Perspectives, East Ralios

Dennis Hoover wrote

>RQ2 came about in the Star Wars era, complete
>with freedom-loving rebels and an Evil Empire to hate. It's world view was
>dualistic and simplistic. Glorantha (along with Greg, I think) is becoming
>more complex and relativistic. It's still OK to be pro-Sartarite and hate
>the Lunars, but this is only the Sartarite perspective. What's changed is
>that it used to be the "right" perspective. Now it's OK to have the
>pro-Lunar perspective and see the Sartarites as ignorant (not dumb)
>barbarians.

Hmm, I always thought Glorantha was unique precisely because it wasn't
black and white. In our early RQ2 days, it was perfectly reasonable for a
Seven Mothers initiate to be hanging out with Lightbringers. I think what's
changed is not that there are now more "right" perspectives, but that we
are finally starting to get enough detail to PLAY from another perspective.

Also note that until King of Sartar, we really didn't have enough detail to
play anyone except a Praxian or Pavisite. Not that that stopped us, of
course. But if you'll recall, nothing in RQ2 said that Sartar was composed
of tribes, which were composed of clans. A pretty serious omission, IMHO.

My last word to Peter Michaels on the subject of Eurmal in East Ralios:

> I'm familiar with Greg Stafford's
>"knowing the past allows you to see patterns which allows
>you prophecy what is likely to happen in the future"
>descriptions. But, since geases are VERY individualized
>things... well... just what are you saying here? Are you
>saying that Lankoring knows the past lives of all Orlanthi
>souls, and a Lankori (or whatever you call Lankoring's
>followers) divines a geas so that an individual won't relive
>a "bad part" and die again in the exact same way he or she
>did before in another life? Or do you mean that Lankoring
>knows the most likely way that a person born at a given
>time under given circumstances is going to die (because
>someone else died that way before), so that a Lankori
>divines a geas to try to prevent this? Or... what?

The Seer [not all Lankori have this power, some are purely Lawspeakers]
knows the history of the family (i.e. the kid's father died in a feud with
the Olkoring clan), and knows the significance of the time, place, and
circumstances of birth. He might know that midnight when the Doskior is
flooding is particularly inauspicious, or he might know that someone who
was born at that time made a tragic mistake by ignoring a smith's request.

>My point is that a geas DOESN"T "let you know how not to
>die." At best it tells you one thing to avoid doing to beat the
>odds of dying in one situation. And even that doesn't help
>much in some situations. Connor (the king of Uliad) used
>Fergus Mac Roi's geas ("never refuse a drink") against him so
>that two lovers (Noisi and Deirdre) under his protection
>would be left alone.

It wasn't clear to me this was intentional or not (or am I confusing that
with another problem Fergus had with that geas?). In any case, who's to say
that worse things wouldn't have happened had the geases not been followed?

I think it would be, in general, useful to know that I need to think long
and hard about letting a woman in after sunset. We all die, but this may
help me avoid a tragic situation. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
(Letting your enemies know about your geases arms them, of course.)

>What is Eurmal doing that
>looks like he is breaking the Compromise?

Yes, Eurmal is bound by the Compromise to be Eurmal. But I don't think he
can travel freely through Time, or act directly in the world, no more than
any god.

>From your original post, I got the impression you thought Eurmal could see
the future, and imposed preventive geases accordingly.

Even if that's not what you think, I feel that performing a valued service
which involves much knowledge to perform is contrary to Eurmal's nature.

>Do you have Lankoring giving ALL geases, including the
>Humathi ones? I see those geases as being given by
>Humath's Sword, to help the initiates be more like Humath.
>
>I'm not saying that Eurmali lay ALL geases in East Ralios. I
>think they divine birth geases, and do other forms of
>divination, but that any East Ralian of appropriate
>importance can lay a geas on another.

Preventive geases are laid by a Seer. Humathi (and Elmali) geases are
probably more like oaths, or are laid by the Sword. And geases can be
imposed as a result of some action or circumstance. Some of these resemble
curses.

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