Zorak Zoran and sundry..

From: owner-glorantha@hops.wharton.upenn.edu
Date: Wed 21 Feb 1996 - 04:59:44 EET


Pam Carlson:
============

>After all, doesn't she (Xiola Umbar) help not-trolls, too, and even once
>that dispicable Glowing Thing? (Whose myth is that, anyway? No DHappan
>would ever concieve of it...)

Apparently they have. There is a Dara Happan Heresy known as the
Umbarites (which was a home grown version of Spolitism). No prizes
for guessing the chief goddess of the Umbarites.

PM>> However this does not gibe with troll perceptions of ZZ as a
>>Troll Death God or (IMO) human perceptions of him as the Dark
>>Side of Lodril.

>Where does the ZZ as Dark Lodril come from? While there are similarities
>(underground, fire, disorder) there are huge gulfs between the two (Lodril
>as Earth, Fertility, ZZ as Death and Cruelty). As far as I can tell, these
>latter aspects are not shared between them at all.
>Is there any overbearing evidence for this?

I said Dark Side of Lodril. Frex, Gorgorma is considered to the Dark
Side of Dendara and they have many aspects which are not shared (Dendara
as Earth, Fertility, Gorgorma as Death and Cruelty).

As for the overbearing evidence, Deshkorgos (Monster Man) looks like
Zorak Zoran, acts like him and is considered a subcult of Lodril. I'm

not saying that Lodril=Zorak Zoran or even that Deshkorgos=Zorak Zoran.
What I believe is that the Zorak Zoran and Deshkorgos were very similar
at the beginning being the Dark Side or Counterpart to the Local Earth
God. The Worship of Zorak Zoran was picked up by trolls on their way
to the surface world and moulded by their own inhuman perceptions into
the totally new form we know now (discarding apparently meaningless
things like three eyes).

>Is not the "Cruel God" at the Hill of Gold Zorak Zoran? How about the
>Selfish God - Orlanth?

There are many other gods at the Hills of Gold. Basko is mentioned as
met there from the Dara Happan PoV. I don't think Orlanth was there.
More likely Shargash crippled Elmalus there and the Orlanthi later
substituted Orlanth for Shargash in their myth (and much later they
did it again with Yelmalio for Elmalus) IMO.

Personally I think the Hills of Gold is a Holy Grail type contest for
the Orb of the Eye with many gods and heroes questing for it. Only
during the Great Darkness, it was a lot grimmer and nobody succeeded
for a long time...

- --Peter Metcalfe

------------------------------


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 16:29:36 EEST