Do you remember when...

From: PMichaels@aol.com
Date: Thu 02 May 1996 - 16:09:06 EEST


Hi all!

In an effort to get the RQDU transcripts as complete as
possible, I'd like to ask for some assistance from those of you
who attended and spoke at Greg Stafford's Heroquest seminar
at RuneQuest Con Down Under.

Below are transcript excerpts of the [unintelligible] parts I
can't make out on the audiotape. (It's all because of the Voice
of Jeff, I tell you! Aaaargh!) If you recognize what you think
may be your words in here, please email me at
<pmichaels@aol.com>. Please do NOT post your clarifications
to the Glorantha Digest.

I'll be grateful for any help.

For the rest of you, I'm sorry about the tease. Hopefully this
will make you want to buy the transcripts all the more, once
they are available!

Peace,
     Peter

__________

1) Just after the question about the White Moon groups, and
leading into the worship of Sartar discussion, this dialogue
happened:

AM: The King of Sartar might be from the god[unintelligible].

GS: Yeah.

AM: And isn't that the... I mean, eventually most of the hero
[unintelligible] the Fourth Wane [unintelligible].

GS: Yes.

AM: But no one worships Sartar. They worship other gods.
_____

2) Later, there was this interchange:

AM: Is it then fair to say that the process of the Red Goddess
was that she became mortal, regained her free will, and then
went on to become a greater goddess than before? And are
there any other instances of a god becoming mortal to regain
free will?

GS: Uh...

[unintelligible - several people talking at once]

GS: She lost most of it.

AM: Yeah, but...

[unintelligible - several people still talking at once]

GS: Not that I can think of that was anywhere near as
successful as she was. Except maybe the Pharaoh. Probably
not, though.

AM: [unintelligible] become a never ending story, where you
lose it and gain it and lose it and gain it?

AM: [unintelligible] the gods you worship now might not be
the same gods in a couple hundred years?

GS: Yes, that's possible.

AM: What [unintelligible] are you putting on gods now? Just
[unintelligible]?

GS: <pause> The permanence of being.
_____

3) After Greg discussed how to start a hero cult, there was:

AM: What if you go [unintelligible] without worship, and
establish yourself on the plane [unintelligible] and just
rotate around until [unintelligible]?

GS: Only until your free will goes away. And then you're just
lost, because there is nothing to maintain your position in
that. And you will just be diminished. You'll wear out. You
won't change.

AM: [unintelligible] <laughter>

GS: Uhhh. I don't think so.

AM: [unintelligible] on the mundane-

GS: Well, of course heroes are in the mundane. I mean, that's
the whole point of being a hero. You have both divine powers
and free will. You're still alive! Life is the origin of will and
change. The gods are not alive. They are not alive the way
human beings are living. They don't have free will. They can't
voluntarily change themselves.

AM: If you [unintelligible]

[unintelligible - several people talking at once]

GS: Divinity is not the same as immortality. But you mean
divinity? See, I think that in attaining divinity, no you can't.
But if you're immortal, you just live forever. But you don't
have worshipers. You're not a god or a worshipped hero.
_____

4) Then someone asked:

AM: Waha and Jaldon, were they both heroes, and Waha went on
to be a god and Jaldon never made it? [much unintelligible]
_____

5) Later still:

AM (someone in blue): So, gods don't have to [much
unintelligible]. But is it harder to keep a god without
worshipers from being [unintelligible] individual heroquest
[unintelligible] than a god with normal worshipers.

AM: If they can combine all the worshipers...

AM: Yeah!

GS: Ooh! Good question! I don't know. I don't know if it's
easier.
_____

6) Then, during the "giving up free will" debate:

AM: That would make [unintelligible] barbarians try to
become like Orlanth. He may not want to give his free will up,
but he does want to be like Orlanth. So he's putting himself
[unintelligible].
______

7) When the discussion gets back to herquesting, there is:

AM: You just said that Solar worshippers from can make
changes made the trolls null and void. Then why aren't the
gods [unintelligible] their worshippers? The troll god is
going, "OH FUCK! We've got to do something!" and then-

GS: Trolls swear all the time. <laughter>

AM: - [unintelligible] "I'll get all of my [unintelligible]."
And the troll heroquesters go out, and keep on going, and
change it 'til... 'til it changes!

GS: They try!
_____

8) And later:

AM: What about Divination? A priest [unintelligible].

GS: I don't quite believe in that. <laughter>
_____

9) Later still:

AM: Do you always have to go to [unintelligible]? Do we
always have to meet up at the [unintelligible]? Can't we do
Storm Lake, occasionally?
_____

10) Then, there is:

AM: What if you've got [unintelligible]. Can you heroquest to
go back and change history [unintelligible]

GS: No. Now, you can go back and rearm yourself, and drag him
into it and try to beat him and get your sword back or
whatever. But you can't change history.

AM: [unintelligible]

GS: No, not that way. Correct.

AM: [much unintelligible] free will [unintelligible] how do
you feel about [unintelligible] now I'm ready to go
heroquesting, or [more unintelligible]

GS: I don't know, really.

AM: That's what I was thinking about. Instead of having a
mountain of free will that you start off with and it goes down,
you start off with "you can do anything" and then an option is
cut off, is cut off, is cut off, until eventually you can only do
certain things.
_____

11) Even later still, there is:

AM: [unintelligible] choose to break them. Can you? Can you
choose to break your own geases?

AM: Yes!

GS: But if you break them, you die. <laughter>

[unintelligible- multiple people talking]

AM: There is another way of looking at that as well. Say I've got a 20
attribute in Lust, which is opposed by Chastity. Say
you realize that you've got a culture... You realize that by
following your god you should be Chaste. [unintelligible] But
then, you are Illuminated and have this world-shattering
change. "In this situation, it would be evil for me to be Chaste.
I must be Lusty with this [unintelligible]'s wife! Because it
is culturally appropriate for me here" [unintelligible] And
if I go home, my [much unintelligible]

GS: I'm not exactly clear where the conflict is. I'm confused a
little bit.
_____

12) When the topic turned to Illumination, and Greg couldn't
remember his "flawless explanation," there was:

AM: It was in Book of the Lost Cause [unintelligible]

GS: It was?

AM: He has, somewhere in writing, [unintelligible].
_____

13) There there is a BUNCH of stuff I can't make out from
someone asking about the relationship between shamanism and
heroquesting.
_____

14) Then:

AM: The Malkioni, do they know about heroquesting? Surely
they're not [unintelligible] the other gods, or the other
pagans, as spirits?
_____

15) After the question about connection between heroquesting
and runequest (ie the GL runes), someone asked something
about the "subjectivity of the heroplane." Greg answered (in
part) "It's some of both."
_____

16) Directly after the above, someone asked something to
which Greg responded, "It is a matter of being able to perceive
reality in that realm."
_____

17) Someone made what sound to be some interesting
statements about the LBQ and resurrection.
_____

18) And, lastly, at two different points in the seminar, these
questions are asked (By the same person? By different people?
I don't know) :

During the discussion of free will:
AM: So, what, the dragonewts are giving up all their free will
to [unintelligible]?

During the discussion on resurrection:
AM: The dragonewts [unintelligible]
_____

------------------------------

End of Glorantha Digest V2 #529
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