From: martin (102541.3423@CompuServe.COM)
Date: Fri 03 May 1996 - 21:12:59 EEST
I was trying to let this all drop but as Mr Brooke decided to have a final dig I
felt it only fair to riposte to his riposte.
>BTW, my bygone insinuation re: penis envy was meant as a riposte to Martin
>Laurie's declaration that "all feminists want to dominate men" -- it is equally
>true, IMHO, that: all writers of "mighty-thewed heroic fantasy" are
>sweaty-palmed traumatised nerds fixated on gay icons like Schwarzenegger and
>Van Damme; all "wargamers" are adolescent fantasists hung up on macho SAS
>bullshit, gun magazines, and the perceived need to swear grotesquely and
>inappropriately in public places ("leper-sucking Whores"); all "powergamers"
are >self-abusing bandwidth-filling exponents of "my character's higher level
than >yours" DnD munchkinism...
Firstly, seeing as you are quoting me, I never said "all feminist want to
dominate men." I said that some do, certainly most of the ones I've met.
Several male feminists wrote in to assure me different which is fine as I never
thought for a minute (nor did I say) that all feminists are like that.
>But as long as we're talking about *other* people, it's all right to bring out
>these crudely abusive stereotypes, isn't it? Y'know, I'm glad I struck a nerve,
>if it helps make him more sensitive in future.
Nope. All it tells me is that you didn't actually read what I said but
misinterprited it somewhat. As for insulting stereotypes, who doesn't?
Presumably you don't? Real understanding of stereotypes comes with the
realisation that they:
A) Wouldn't exist without a rather large dose of truth.
B) Don't apply on an individual level but on a wider social one and even then
not with anything like 100% accuracy but with enough to be recognisable.
Anyway you did a nice summary of the wargamer, powergamer stereotypes which you
obviously know well from experiencing them so if you feel like slagging them off
go for it. I have done so too.
You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about my views because its the only
reason I can think of why you would personally insult me when I have never done
anything like that to you. I'm really at a loss to explain this pointless
behaviour. If you don't like what I say, disagree or ignore but don't
denigrate. It achieves nothing apart from the creation of bad feelings. Sheesh
this is meant to be a discussion forum not a personality attack forum so lets
An earlier quote from me. Boy that must have taken some finding.
> Fantasy today is littered with "nice guy" heros who "agonize" over the nasty
> things they are doing or have "deep personality problems". Heros? Its like
> reading the life and times of a social worker. Blaaa. I wanna puke. To me a
> hero is a man or woman who sticks by their beliefs no matter what, because
> they think they are _right_. Someone who will die for a friend or fight to
> the last to save a cause. Now thats heroism. [M.L. V2 #290]
>Oh. I take it all back: if "sticking by your beliefs no matter what, because
>think you're *right*" is the definition of heroism, then Martin L. is being
>*truly* heroic. :-)
Frankly I'm being stubborn rather than heroic for the simple reason that this is
a E-mailed digest where the participants are often thousands of miles apart and
so there is no risk involved to make standing by your views heroic in any way.
One would presume that you yourself would be a lot more heroic in your own
ability to insult people if you were sitting right next to them when you did?
Try sitting next to me sometime while insulting me in such a rich manner and
lets see how heroic you really are. If you did, I would respect you at least
because you had the nerve to say it to my face. Doing it over the internet is
the greatest form of cowardice I can imagine. Don't get me wrong, I ain't
calling you a coward because I don't know whether you would say it to my face or
not but I look forward to the day when we meet and you wander over and start
making comments about my penis size in front of everybody.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 16:31:07 EEST