Lunars and Vadeli

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Tue 21 May 1996 - 03:12:15 EEST

Dominic McNamara:

> For a great many people the lunar empire would not have been a good
>place to live, life would have been (to paraphrase that old cliche) 'nasty,
>brutish and short.' Presumably the lunars make extensive use of slaves,
>and a slave-driven economy, although initially possessing immense growth
>potential, ultimately sows the seeds of its own destruction.

Umm? The Lunars don't use Latifundae as far as I'm aware. Most of
their peasantry are free although they have to pay the taxman heaps
when he arrives at the local village. The only slave-plantations
would probably be in the Redlands for damnable heretics.

> Therefore, i would argue that the lunar empire is more evil than good,
>because it must expand and subvert other cultures to survive, and
>possesses a maladaptive culture system which will doom its provinces as
>well as itself.

Why do they need to expand and subvert other cultures? Much of the
recent expansion (Tarsh, Sartar) is driven not because they need to,
but certain members (including Number One) of the Lunar Empire think
it good to gain military glory. What economic reasons did the Romans
have for invading Britain?

Jean Durupt:

>Are the Waertagi affected by the [closing]?

>The great difference between a Waertagi ship and a human one is
>the philosophy behind it.
>The Waertagi ride the waves, the humans try to ignore them.

I don't think this is sufficient for the Closing not to affect
the Waertagi. You can have the Waertagi not being affected by
the Closing but it is much better to make such a decision by fiat
than try to 'prove' it via scholarly arguments about the exact
workings of the Closing (which varies from place to place). For
instance, I think rafts _are_ affected by the Closing irrespective
of your arguments. I think the Closing was cast with the aim of
trying to bar all human traffic (and Waertagi are humans) from the
seas and Zzabur wouldn't let loopholes like rafts exist.

>The Vadeli race

>The Brown are the crafter mainly.

They are merchants and sailors. There are hardly any Brown crafters
as one of the first things the Browns did when the seas were opened
was to carry the cargo of others for profit. Although the Vadeli
were part of the Kingdom of Logic, they were an entirely different
school to the Brithini.

>They may not captain a ship, they may not use an elemental weapon
>(ie swords are forbidden)

huh? As far as I know this is not true. There are ships crewed
entirely by the Browns and they do use whatever weapons they can.
They are not as effective fighters as the Reds but they can still

I think the Vadeli do not have caste taboos in the Brithini sense
as they are not Brithini. Rather their immortality is fueled by
their performance of certain tasks, not the avoidance. Frex, the
Browns when they formulate a desire (I wonder what it will be like
to sleep with my mother?) must carry out that desire eventually or
it will eat away the immortality spell they have up (which is made
from their kids but that's another story).

The Reds probably have to commit horrible things on those that they
have captured in battle (and probably have a set quota of victims to
take each year). I think of the Red Vadeli Isles before Dormal
discovered them as Easter Island, fighting amongst themselves. When
they were freed, they kissed and made up and now practice their
enormities upon others.

- --Peter Metcalfe


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