LM yet again

From: Michael Raaterova (michael.raaterova.7033@student.uu.se)
Date: Thu 23 May 1996 - 14:30:12 EEST

David comments:

> The danger, though, is that the
> different schools are rather esoteric from a game point of view. More MGF
> topics for faction fighting might be better?

[As will be seen below, i am a member of the wellbasically club]

Well, basically, the schools of thought i presented were polarized around a
single question: is the Flesh/Heart good or bad? (or, in scientific terms:
which is best - induction or deduction?)

Thus we get some flagellant LM monks who worship Reason, we get some
ascetic LM hermits, we get some indulgent LM who revel in experiences of
all types, and we even get the anti-rational Carnalist Movement.

The main point was not to present the assorted theories of the cults, but
to portray different lifestyles of the LMs. This was unfortuantely not
obvious in the write-up.

I agree fully with David re: more MGF topics for faction fighting. One such
topic for urban temples is whether the Lhankor Mhy cult should divorce
itself from society (so that the quest for Truth isn't interrupted or
distracted by the great unwashed), integrate fully (spreading knowledge for
free as itinerant teachers) or continue as semi-detached info-merchants.

Another is the debate around Honour: does it imply honesty (never lie) or
fairness (lie if it protects justice)?

>I agree with Michael on limiting the schools influence and importance depending
>on the temple size. Nochet is the natural home for all of these schools,
>probably followed by Jonstown. Id say Pavis sages have other fish to fry with
>the Irippi Ontor incursion, the frontier environment, and the Big Rubble, so it
>wont be important there. As for clans and tribes, such debates are irrelevant
>to everyday life.

Well, basically, the IO problem in Pavis is fought on the battlefield of
philosophy. In actual practice the two cults don't differ that much, except
that IO are more for imperial administration than practical wisdom. I guess
both cults have the other one as a subcult, at least in Dragonpass, Tarsh
and Peloria.

As for school debates in clans and tribes, i have said earlier that they
usually are single-school. Thus no debate occurs. They have one LM

>We should also bear in mind that this isnt what sages argue about all of the
>time. It might come to the fore on occasion and cause heated debate (and even
>noviciate riots), but most of the time itll just be a background theme. More
>mundane matters such as inter-library loans, book hoarding, plagiarism, beards
>vs. no beards, round earth vs. flat earth, political infighting over temple
>positions, and the like, would provide the everyday bread and butter of temple
>faction fighting.

As i said above, the schools of thought should provide the basic lifestyle
and mundane practices for the GM (for Gloranthan LMs the reverse is
basically true - the schools of thought was created out of mundane
practices). The LMs usually fight about mundane practices (which often
emanate from the schools of thought).

That said, i endorse the examples above as good fuel for faction fighting
(except the beard vs no beard. In My Glorantha (IMG; to coin an acronym)
the beardedness of LM is of little import).

Most fighting about details (like round/flat earth) are between two or a
few individual scholars who have an interest for the same phenomenon. An LM
that studies clouds doesn't care much about the roundedness of the world.

>Within Sartar I see great conflict (schools?) between the old traditional
>Hendreiki Lhankor Mhy of the clans and tribes, with their oral tradition,
>insularity, spiritualism, and back to basics views, and the recently installed
>Nochet Lhankor Mhy with their written tradition, great libraries, logic, and
>philosophising about the nature of truth.

Now this is a splendid idea.

>I believe that the Nochet LM were brought into Sartar as part of Sartar
>Peacemakers followers. They effectively became/imposed the top hierarchy
>of >the LM cult, and acted as the propagandists, spin-doctors and
>visionaries of
>Sartars unification of the tribes. Mirroring their own *unification* of the LM

>This explains why the clan Lhankor Mhy, the lawspeaker, seems such a different
>animal to a Grey Sage of the Jonstown Library - they come from two different
>traditions cobbled together.

Now, why didn't i think of this? David, this is terrific. I guess there's a
"Ban the Quill" Movement in Dragonpass, propagated by Oralist tribal LMs.

I suppose that the Pavis temple is mostly made up of Nochet-type LMs, and
that the LMs of the surrounding farmer Orlanthi are more 'traditional'.

>It is also likely that the jurors in the clan would be
>affiliated with, if not initiated into, Lhankor Mhy.

Or Orlanth Lawspeaker or Humakt Oathmaker.

>Tribal temples. Is the impression I should get here of clan and tribal LMs
>being separate and distinct? Tribal lawspeakers are radically different animals
>to clan lawspeakers? I dont thinks so. The differences are really just ones of
>scale. Thus to me the second mask appears rather artificial.

Well, basically, the impression i wanted to give was that tribal
lawspeakers (who are not merely aldormen) are full-time priests. The Wise
Elders, or Aldormen, are more like acolytes. I did not intend a radical

One thing i neglected to mention explicitly was that Clan LMs (mask of
Wisdom) are mostly elders, who retire from more physically active cults
like Orlanth and join the cult of the Knowing God (possibly Orlanth
Aldorman or Lawspeaker)

With the concretization of Lawspeaker LM, the cult of the Knowing God takes
the step to a 'real' cult with full-time priests and a greater array of

The Knowing Companions or Aldormen don't disappear, but they are now second
rank below the Lawspeaker who leads the cult.

Some tribes do not have a Lawspeaker, but instead have a Ring of Elders.
This type of LM cult do not have access to the magic of the second mask.

Does this sound better, David?

>Urban temples. I think they are less widespread than the impression Michael
>gives. IMO in Sartar there are only two large temples with libraries, Jonstown
>and Boldhome. Other urban temples are probably more like shrines (or very small
>temples) perhaps attached to the local alchemists guild, the law courts,
>or >some eccentric nobles book collection.

Well, basically, i agree with you. Most temples to LM in Dragonpass are of
the Second Mask variety. I don't think that Third Mask temples are

>The sages at a temple have to fill some sort of social niche for the temple to
>prosper (adventurers provide a rather unreliable source of income). Cities are
>the most likely places since the local government will require sages, the local
>tribes will form a big enough catchment area for training and initiating
>prospective lawspeakers, traders will need scribes and accountants
>(whether >from the temple or trained by the temple), and the general level
>population >will generate income.

I agree. I hope i haven't said anything contrary to this.

>I don't see towns being large enough to support a temple unless there is some
>other pressing reason, such as a major archaeological site nearby or a holy

Most things and moots occur on LM HDs, and thus it's also a LM worship
ceremony with quite a lot of worshippers (pantheon initiation). The Law
Rock of the Thing is sacred to Lhankor Mhy.

Thus most tribes and towns can support a temple without problem.

>Linneans: Of course, this is just a pale imitation of the fine doctrine of
>Baldrus the Black Reader of Nochet (Tales #8).

I felt i remembered a precedent from somewhere, but i didn't consciously
plagiarize Baldrus, as i had cleaned forgotten about Baldrus when i wrote
the schools. I doubt that Baldrus was the first to propose this idea,
though. The article in Tales implies that Baldrus continues the work of
Gemithsos. Linneus was among the Grey Ones who escaped Chaos during the
Greater Darkness.

- -------
Michael Raaterova <Sig omitted on legal advise>


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