Re: The Vadeli

From: Sandy Petersen (
Date: Thu 23 May 1996 - 21:14:52 EEST

David Cake
>The restriction on elemental weapons - a bit strange.
        The Vadeli are an extremely ancient and peculiar race. All
their customs and lore, and most of their history, is pre-Dawn.
ought to expect them to be bizarre in lots of unintuitive ways, but
naturally this doesn't mean cultural non-sequiturs ought to teem
amongst them -- it should make a coherent whole.

>And the Brown Vadeli are not allowed to captain ships? It certainly
>seems that there are Brown Vadeli only ships.
        Not in my writings there ain't. If other folks wish to have

the Brown Vadeli doing this, 'tis none of my business. I only wish
to point out that the Brown Vadeli existed throughout the First and
Second Age, lived exclusively on islands, and yet were never heard

of a bit in all that time. My explanation is that the Red Vadeli are
both sailors and warriors, and that their relationship to the Brown
is symbiotic -- the Brown can exist on their own, but combined with
the Red, Vadeli efficacy is enhanced astronomically.
        Remember that a "boat" is NOT the same as a "ship".

>I'm not sure I agree with >Joerg thats its wildly implausible -
wasn't the five >elements view of the world >a Western concept
        Yes, it was. Or else it was an inherent part of the early
world -- the Theyalans know about it, too. And even the Kralori
accept the elements as part of their belief system (though they only
really have four -- Storm, to them, is not a "true" element). Some
elemental concepts of Glorantha.


        First: only the Westerners, so far as I know, think of the
"Elements" in the Greek manner; as building blocks of the universe
of which all things are made. The West accept Five Elements. Moon,
to them, is a Condition Rune.
        The Theyalans believe that the elements are more like
essential principles -- that they represent spiritual ideals more
than crude physical matter. The personality of their gods is more
readily associated with their element than their spells or cult
structure. Theyalans who dwell near the Lunar Empire grudgingly
accept Moon as an element.
        The Pelorians don't seem to think much about elements at
all, but when they do they appear to think of them as being
organized into a scale from best to worst, roughly descending in
order from SKY > EARTH > WATER > STORM > DARKNESS, rather than
rating them all as equal-but-separate. The Lunar element stands
apart from this system and if it were not for the insistance of
Lunar Dogma, would probably still be considered no more than a Form
        The Kralori accept four elements: leaving out Storm and
Moon. Their elements are mystical conceits, imagined as thought
experiments to explain the world's origin.
        The East Islanders believe in a large number of physical
principles, classified by Genertelan observers as elements and
sub-elements. The thought of grouping together the different
concepts of Light, Sky, Heat, Fire, Dawn, etc. into a single
category is alien to them, and they have a real trouble grokking
Genertelan philosophy. They not only accept the Lunar element, but
recognize three basic types of Moon: Blue, White, and Black, plus
sub-types of these. The Red Moon is a mystery -- most explain it as
the God of another land far away; and this idea is close enough to
reality that it doesn't really matter.

Sandy P.

Sandy P.


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