From: David Cake (davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au)
Date: Thu 11 Jul 1996 - 23:42:09 EEST
>> The Yelorna cult. This might originate from Jarst or nearby. They
>>supposedly have unicorn riding deities.
>
>If there are unicorns in Jarst, it does not mean that Yelorna comes
>from there.
It merely a theory, based more on the "starlight ancestors" bit,
the Unicorns being merely supporting evidence. Not once did I say that the
presence of unicorns was proof that Yelorna came from there. Settle down.
You have made far more outrageous claims on less proof yourself.
> From what I know, the Unicorn Tribe has been in Prax
>from the earliest times and Yelorna came there from Ralios after the
>Dawn.
>
I was unaware of the mentions of Yelorna in Ralios when I posted.
Now that I am aware of them, it does seem to shoot down a rather nice
theory (now they are just boring proto-feminist horse worshippers, rather
than the descendents of Star Captains I was going to make them out to be.
Oh well).
The Unicorn tribe in Prax I don't think have any common origins
with the Yelornans (nor did I ever suggest they did) - but I suspect their
presence was the impetus for a group of Yelornans to travel and settle in
an out of the way place like Pavis. I've never seen another theory to
explain what the hell they are doing there.
>> Polaris - most mentions of this god seem to be from Raibanth, but
>>surely it seems more likely to have originated in Yuthuppa? Yuthuppa
>>otherwise does not have a war god of any kind.
>
>Polaris is older than Yuthuppa therefore his worship cannot have
>'originated' there.
You know what I mean. Originated with the people who eventually
settled in Yuthuppa. Anyone disagree?
> Furthermore Polaris was not a war god originally
Perhaps he gained the war god role precisely because Yuthuppa had
>so assigning him to Yuthuppa to give them a war god is nonsensical.
no war god?
>Yuthuppa does not have a specialized wargod because Yuthuppa is not
>that type of City.
Polaris isn't much of a war god either (nor is he particularly
specialised in that role). The Yuthuppan commanders may by and large have
been fairly crappy, but they have to worship somebody. Or do they just
trust in aid from above and a favourable horoscope?
>IMO the cult of Polaris as a wargod really exists outside Yuthuppa
>because it was imported from there to bring some semblence of order
>to the Army. Even then, a Polaris worshipper does not get his hands
>dirty but stands at the command post and gives out orders.
>
All sounds fairly correct. The only problem I have is that Polaris
then seems to occupy a very similar niche to Yelm (who also leads the
troops, frequently from the back). Do the two gods perform different roles
(how to distinguish?) or similar roles in different places? Why worship
Polaris if you are already a Yelmite?
> There are non-noble families who worship
>Yelm and most of the Urbans of Dara Happa are members of Yelm the Youth
>at the least.
I think this is a vast overstatement. I think most of the upper and
some of the middle classes are Yelmic (the majority of whom are in Yelm the
youth or the equivalent Dendara lay membership). But most of the urban
inhabitants are lower classes without a hope of getting into Yelm, or
middle class who have not yet made it.
BTW there is very limited social mobility in Yelmic society -
someone not born in the Yelm cult can work their way up in an associated
cult, and eventually be accepted into Yelm the Elder (if they are really
lucky). Yelm the elder does not allow appointment to any of the really
important positions, but it does mean your children are Yelmic.
Sandy said (in reply to my contention that Yelm worshippers below Imperator
have relatively poor magic)
> Hrm? Yelm provides excellent magic as far as I can make
>out. If you consider that you get to sacrifice for not only your own
>cult, but all your allied cults, Yelm has a huge variety of spells
>available.
Which was more or less my point. If you are a tough competent Yelm
worshipper, but who is not going to make Imperator any time soon (say,
someone who has just qualified for Sun Lord but is a fifth son), you look
to Yelms excellent array of allied cults rather than getting your best
magic from Yelm. Thus explaining why a cult I don't believe to be
originally from Raibanth (Polaris) is so popular there. They do get decent
spirit magic, but so do most large cults.
But a Sun Lord is as hard to qualify for as any other rune lord
status, yet gets NO reusable magic, NO special DI, and precious little
other magic. And he intends to become Imperator, he has to wait 5 years. So
I presume most of them go on to get some decent magic from a different cult
(Sagittus, Polaris, Hastatus).
I think most of those Yelmic magicians that the Lunar army trots
out are talented later sons who qualify for Sun Lord, and then give up on
ever getting into Imperator and jump into Yelm the Elder. Probably with
long and distinguished military careers, but getting a little old for it
now.
Pam said
>He, he... I've always thought of Jannisor as a Khelmal/Elmal/Yelmson
>type, who led a coalition based on the strength of his Justice, in the
>great traditions of Eusibus and Urvairinus!
Martin King and I have been thinking of him as the great Lodrili
hero - master of earth powers, leading a rebellion against the bad emperor,
attended by a demon servant. Which is not to deny the posible Khelmal/Elmal
element entirely.
Men and a Half
>Just what is the extent of the Men-and-a-half? Are they confined to that one
>tribe in Prax or do they also exist in Pamaltela? If so, do they make up all
>of or a certain percentage of the Dorradi?
My take on it (which is probably not the same as, say, Sandy's) is
that the Men and a half do exist in Palaltela are a small minority tribe
among the Doraddi, and culturally different. Lodril (what is Lodril called
in Pamaltela?) is known to the Right Footpath Doraddi (the great majority)
but is not worshipped by them, while the Men and a Half do worship
Grandfather Lodril.
I think the Men and a half in Pamaltela are physically, magically,
and culturally different to the other Doraddi, but not extremely so. They
are physically taller. I think SOME of their physical differences are not
innate, but come as a result of a difficult ritual initiation that they all
endure at puberty.
My reasons for having them survive there are primarily MGF. It also
seems silly to have half the interesting Palaltelan tribes surviving only
on the Praxian plains. I like the Men and a Half, and I like their unique
relationship to Lodril. It also explains why Lodril is still important in
inner Pamaltela. The Doraddi, of course, just think the Men and a Half are
kind of old fashioned. It also fits in in a fun way with my idea of how
Doraddi society works, Lodril providing a humourous counterpoint to the
scrupulously sensible Pamalt chieftains. For more info, try
http://www.cwr.uwa.edu.au/~cake/Doraddi.html
I'm not sure were in Pamaltela the Men and a Half have their tribal
lands. Somewhere were they get to fight a bit, I guess. Any suggestions?
David
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