From: David Cake (davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au)
Date: Fri 09 Aug 1996 - 00:55:08 EEST
Martin "definately-not-Crim" Laurie said
>You know, you guys must have a level of humour missing
I don't want to speak for myself, but MOB has to have injected more
humour into Glorantha than almost anyone else alive, and is an extremely
funny person otherwise as well. If he does have a 'level' of humour
missing, I'm sure I wouldn't miss it.
>What are you actually saying here?
Actually, all I was originally saying was that your ideas on the
Now why would I have done that?
If you say so.
Vadeli didn't work for me, and that I would go for much less detailed look
at the mechanics, for a variety of reasons. Since then I've told that the
reason they didn't work for me was that I'm squeamish, humourless, and it
was implied that I should go and lock myself in a box.
But it came across that way.
Neither of your original Vadeli ideas (the Blue or the Red) worked
for me, because the combination of nastiness, and an abundance of
mechanical detail with very little cultural/ mythical backup for it, gave
me the general impression that the creative process had worked somewhat
backwards. It just felt like Martin Laurie trying to create something nasty
- - which, regardless of how it offends anyones sensibilities, means it
didn't feel convincing.
Martin Laurie also said
>BTW is menstrual intercourse a taboo in Glorantha, I hadn't
>noticed it being a taboo in the real world so is there something that indicates
>it is?
It is an extremely common type of taboo in many real world
societies, often to the extent that it is considered taboo to allow a
menstruating woman to do almost anything at all, let alone have sex with
them. In fact, taboos of this nature are unusually absent from Glorantha.
Red Vadeli Blood Magic
I do like the idea that Red Vadeli are heavily involved with blood
magic. I prefer this idea to the idea that they like suffering and hate
kindness, which just seems too much like its designed to create vicious bad
guys. Whereas with blood magic they could choose not to use it - but they
use it anyway.
But that doesn't mean they can't be every bit as vicious, and it
does remove the 'hornless red broo' stigma (I also agree with Peter that
they should be endogamous, not parasitic). I think the idea that
Immortality and/or reproduction involves prodiguous quantities of blood is
an excellent one. And there is ample precedent for blood magic in
Glorantha, MOBs Lunar standard ritual being only one example. Its just the
Red Vadeli have taken it further than anybody else (or perhaps where the
original source of it).
Loren had some good ideas, but I'm not sure I like the Red Vadeli
as the Big Red Cannibal Cult either.
>their magics.
I think its kind of neat if the Red Vadeli could choose to do it
without suffering - but just don't choose to do so.
This isn't necessarily because they are evil though and through
(though they may be IYG), but it could be partly because needing blood so
often for their magic, they must often make do with their own (or borrow
from their children), so are trained from a young age to endure the pain of
cutting themselves (I don't think any Vadeli have nice childhoods....). So
being able to endure the pain of cutting yourself could be a culturally
encouraged trait. Thus they could almost be complimenting you by inflicting
excruciating pain on you - its could be a sign of respect. Or maybe they do
it because they like to laugh at your childlike screams, which they find
funny in an adult. Or maybe for bizarre ritual reasons known only to
themselves. I suspect you don't care much if they are doing it to you.
>There is also the RW example of a Hungarian? Countess
>who bathed in the blood of virgins to prolong her good looks.
Ah, Elisabeth Bathory, one of the special people of history.
I once wrote a scenario with her as the main villain, and a good
villain she was too. The scenario was actually called Blood Magic, and was
based around the idea that her bathing in blood etc had a magical motive. I
gave her an iron maiden, which I'm sure wouldn't go amiss in a Red Vadeli
blood magic toolkit either. The scenario also featured Gille de Rais, who
might be an alarming source of inspiration for other Vadeli practices,
bearing in mind his alleged interest in fatal sexual liasons with small
children (supposedly hundreds). Rest assured, all, that in neither case did
I feel the need to describe their acts in technicolour detail.
One good source for ideas about blood magic is the Tim Powers book
'On Stranger Tides', which is about voodoo and also has lots of good ideas
involving blood and iron. I heartily recommend it anyway as a fun fantasy
historic novel that is well written and largely free of fantasy cliches.
Basic ideas from that book include
a) iron is connected to magic - cold iron weakens it, warm iron strengthens
it, blood is full of warm iron and is a good magical power source.
b) using magic consumes blood - using your own blood makes you anaemic, so
its better to use someone elses.
c) you can do special things by connecting iron directly to blood. There is
a rather excruciating scene later in the book where the hero improvises a
magic cutlass by driving a compass needle through the handle and his hand.
Now, we have no evidence at all that blood contains iron on
Glorantha, or is even connected (does Gloranthan iron rust? I'm sure it
doesn't when enchanted) but no evidence against it, and the ideas can be
easily adapted anway.
But I am sure someone could come up with a few magical rituals
similarly to tap involving shedding blood and trading hit points for magic
points of effect. Then they can use their blood sacrifices to power their
enormous sorcery spells (according to Sandy, your average Red is enchanted
to the gills). I also like the idea that the Red Vadeli blood magics are
not particularly restricted to the Vadeli, they are just the only ones who
use or study them often.
Cheers
David
PS Actually, I'm quite a fan of Joe Lansdale, though I did find his 'Blood
and Shadows' series recently a bit much. The brain eating scene was
particularly gratuitous.
PPS big thanks to both Peter Metcalfe and Nick for useful comments on the
Pelorian Prosopaedia so far.
------------------------------
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Fri 13 Jun 2003 - 16:52:03 EEST