From: Sandy Petersen (sandyp@idgecko.idsoftware.com)
Date: Sat 31 Aug 1996 - 06:05:16 EEST
Joerg
>I know that I tried to run each of a shaman apprentice and a
>beginning shaman against spirits, and an experienced sorcerer. Only
>the latter ever stood a slight chance.
Try a sorcerer apprentice and see how he does compared to the
beginning shaman. Then try an experienced shaman.
> 1) Any reasonable spirit (i.e., a POW of 10+) has a 95%
>chance of resisting a 1-point Dominate.
>with a multispelled Dominate 1 the statistical chance is a lot
>better than the linear chance you calculated. Already after five
>tries your wizard has a 22% chance to have succeeded at least once,
>>which is enough, and by far quicker than to beat it down to zero
>MP.
You are doing a rather peculiar thing with your multispell.
In any case, it violates the rules and their spirit (I admit you
recognize this, stating it's a powergame ploy). I have always played
that when multiple attack spells were hurled by the same caster at
the same target, only a single d100 roll is made for resistance. If
the target resists, none of the spells take effect. Otherwise, they
all do. Hence Multispelling a Dominate is pointless unless you have
multiple targets. You may argue that my rules interpretation is bad,
or wrong, or quirky, but it's been working fine for 18 years, and
bypasses a great number of little minimaxing tricks.
So if it takes 14 tries to overcome the spirit, AND you have
There are some other special handicaps re: sorcerers and spirits. A
to succeed at a Concentration roll every single round, your odds blow
fat toads. Long before you've taken over the spirit, you're
possessed.
You have also assumed that the spirit casts no spells of its
own. Even if we limit it to spirit magic, a simple Demoralize
prevents the sorcerer from casting Dominate again in that fight.
rather obvious one is that the sorcerer needs a separate Dominate
spell for each group of spirits. The shaman does not. If the "wrong"
kind of spirit attacks a sorcerer, he's sunk.
I mentioned that a Neutralize Magic can be used to KO a Protective
Circle. Joerg responds
> Neutralize Magic has about the same chance to succeed as has the
>Dominate.
Not if it is cast at a higher intensity than the Dominate, or
the Circle's strength is weaker than the spirit's.
>The spirit will be hard put to produce a Dispel Magic 16, really.
Why can't a spirit in sorcerous countries know sorcery? I
suspect it's more common than spirit magic for Western spirits.
I pointed out that the spirit could just fly away from the Protective
Circled sorcerer. Joerg gloats ;) that
>Wandering away is about the desired effect, isn't it?
No. Making the spirit go away _permanently_ is the desired
effect. If all it does is retreat out of sight of your Dominate until
the Circle wears off, you've accomplished nothing but the waste of
some good MPs. Once you leave, the spirit will return to haunting its
house. And a spirit moves very quickly indeed.
>Ok, it is impossible to Dominate a possessed individual. But it is
I said that the Malkioni's worst foes have always been shamanistic
>possible to Dominate a spirit to attack the possessing spirit, let
>it win spirit combat thanks to its Spirit Resistance and take over,
>and then order it to leave the body.
This doesn't work on a covertly-possessing spirit. If you
send a spirit against the victim, it will just attack the victim. If
the spirit you sent is another covert spirit, it will possess him
too, alongside the unwelcome former tenant.
cultures. In response Joerg writes an enormously long post from the
Book of Kings, written before Greg even knew there _were_ Hsunchen in
Glorantha, and which has nothing to do with whether the Basmoli were
shamanistic or not. The fact that they worshiped gods is immaterial
in this regard.
Joerg asks
>I'm also still puzzled where the Haragalans get their divine sun
>magics.
There is a society of magicians who have mastered this magic.
It is not a religious group, but a philosophical one.
>Do the larger of the East Isles (like Haragala or Mokato) have more
>than one deity?
Some East Isles have more than one deity, but the number of
deities is not related to the island's size. In a sense, _all_ the
islands have more than one deity, because in addition to their Island
deity, there are other gods -- the in-betweeners -- who can be
worshiped. Also the higher gods (above their local god(. Examples of
In-betweeners are Brastalos, Dormal, etc. Examples of higher gods are
Thella, the Invisible God, etc.
>I mean, both Mokato and Haragala are about as large as Sartar or
>Tarsh, geographically, and will likely be less uniform in cult and
>culture
Except that the islands have far less foreign influence
shaping their society. Tarsh is affected by Pelorians, Orlanthi, Tusk
Riders, Grazelanders, Malkioni (Ethilrist), etc. That said, there is
more than a single culture on Haragala, and the ruling god (there is
only one) is worshiped in different ways.
>When did the Admiral come to importance? Did his office exist
>already before the Closing, or was it created when Dormal Opened the
>seas?
It already existed, but his ships plied only the inner bay.
>Did they make a distinction between the sailors and the marines (and
>other warriors on board the Holy Country ships)?
Yes, but they saved them both.
>do you say that after the Pharaoh's disappearance in 1616 and his
>Still, the Wenelian mermen called the >Pharaoh and his ships to
>failure to reappear by Sea Season 1617 was followed by a civil war
>not only in kingless Heortland, but all over Kethaela?
There was a struggle for power after the Pharaoh's
disappearance, and the Admiral sided with Lunar ambassadors vs. the
rest of Kethaela. One effect of this was the appearance of the
Kingdom of Jab.
>their aid in 1582 against Alatan (in the >first of a proud tradition
>of desastrous defeats of Holy Country >fleets).
And this, added to the defeat by Harrek, doesn't strike you
as rather sinister? That EVERY time the Holy Country fleet goes to
battle it gets catastrophically sunk, even though it's supposedly
trained and supported by merfolk? This tends to support my theory,
do you not agree?
>>What would the Ludoch gain from this shift of alliances?
> What _have_ they gained? The wreck of the City of Wonders.
>>Well, Loon Island still disturbs the centre of the Mirrorsea Bay,
But it no longer houses a powerful human city, nor do those
>The elimination of the Holy Country's fleet.
>Was this defeat that serious? Then how do the Capratis grain ships
annoying magic bridges bypass the sea.
>>Once again. This was the third major eradication of a Holy Country
>>fleet. the Pharaoh always commissioned new, and better, ships.
But every time he had to spend time and money. If his fleets
hadn't been destroyed they would have been even stronger, and he
would have had more veteran sailors to man them with. These defeats
weren't trivial, and they haven't been just shrugged off. I believe
that if the Holy Country had managed to win those battles (or avoid
them), it would be the pre-eminent sea nation today. Think of all the
captains and sailors who'd be alive, and all the ships that would
still be floating.
>And are all fishing vessels and fish freighters (to carry local
>In my vision of the Holy Country, what was lost were the military
>catches to the markets at Karse, Nochet, or Vizel to cater for
>inland customers) affected?
Yes. They no longer have protection against pirates or sea
monsters. The Pharaonic fleet is no longer there to patrol the inner
waters and keep the sea-trolls and mermonsters down. Occasional lone
pirate ships are a greater danger, and gradually become ever more so.
And, of course, now no ship can travel except at the sufference of
the Ludoch. Not that they've stopped any of them yet. But the mere
knowledge that the Ludoch control the seas tends to make all shipfolk
eager to please them.
Joerg, what kind of pirates loot only warships and not
>On a geographically related issue: what is the role of the sea
merchant vessels? The wolf pirates plundered everything in the
Mirrorsea.
They are primitive monsters, rather like cave trolls. They do
not affect underwater politics except as a local threat to citizens.
>Why do the Ludoch and Ouori habitats overlap in the Seshnegi Isles
>when it is stated elsewhere that Ludoch and Ouori have not had
>contact for centuries? Misinformed sources?)
The Ludoch of Kethaela and parts east haven't met any Ouori.
>And where do the murthdryami fit into the offshore politics?
The murthoi keep to themselves and their submarine forests.
They are more of a natural resource than a separate political group.
If you have a kelp forest in your submarine queendom, then you try to
keep the murthoi happy and take advantage of their friendship in a
myriad ways.
Remember that the Ludoch, Ouori, Malasp, and Zabdamar are not so much
like competing human kingdoms as like competing different species.
There is as much difference between a Ludoch and a Malasp as there is
between a dwarf and an elf.
Sandy P.
------------------------------
End of Glorantha Digest V3 #164
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