From: Peter Metcalfe (P.Metcalfe@student.canterbury.ac.nz)
Date: Sun 08 Sep 1996 - 03:57:07 EEST
Tim Torres:
===========
Me> Kralorela proper has no theists save for visitors in Wanzow Province.
>But what about the cult of the Emporer/Exarchs, or are you using the word
>theist in a more restricted sense (referring to the use of standard RQ3
>divine magic maybe?) ?
I was using the word theist in a restricted sense as I don't think that
the Kralori worship their gods via the RQ3 cult rules (I didn't count
Hsunchen as theists for a similar reason). Sorry for any confusion.
Joerg Baumgartner:
Joerg had claimed that if the Pharaoh conquered a foreign land then
==================
it would be useless to him for he would have no magics to rule over
it.
I said that the Pharoah could always get some more magics to rule
over the new lands, a trick which the Red Emperor and his predecessors
had been doing for aeons.
Joerg retorts:
>The Red Emperor or the Dara Happan Yelmic (Kargzantic, Paradisial
>Aviatoric, Antirian or whatever) Emperors all were avatars of a
>sovereignty deity, whereas John Carter Belintar isn't.
This is a red herring IMO as the Pharaoh is his *own* sovereignity
>And there is another difficulty: the Holy Country has had some unity
deity. Even if the Pharaoh was a mere sorcerer-king, he would
still be able to evolve new magics to rule conquered lands.
>throughout its mythical prehistory, or so the Pharaoh claims. All parts of
>it had their Silver Age Hero, which was summoned by Belintar (like by Arkat
>before) and which may have given him his claim on sovereignty.
So? There are similar silver age heroes all over the place. The
>If the Pharaoh had conquered another country by military force, that
only unity the place had was that it was ruled by the Only Old
One. Even then he managed to extend his rule to control the
Haralding Pig Farmers and parts of Dragon Pass.
>country would still have to be introduced into his rule by extensive
>heroquesting.
I agree: compulsory worship of the Pharoah at newly erected shrines
would be the first step. To get hold of the land, one would merely
capture the earth priestesses or other religious authorities and
provide them with a guard of honour. This trick has worked quite
well in the RW with people like the Pope, Moctezuma and the Inca.
>Somehow I find it difficult to believe that the Pharaoh can take a couple of
Ah, but after subjugating the newly conquered land to his will, he could
I said that the Pharoah could crown himself the Archduke of Slontos if
>To what avail? A meaningless title with no magical or mythological reason
>years off his seasonal "Reinstate Sovereignty" rituals in the Sixths to
>include a new such ritual in his annual turnaround, and keep his country
>united, and fit the new rite into his sc
hedule.
always use its manpower to effect domestic 'reforms' at home so that he
could have plenty of free time for further conquest...
he ever conquered the Manirian Coast.
>to convey a magical sovereignty. The conquered province would remain a
>conquered foreign territory.
The title is not meaningless as it was used in the Jrusteli Empire.
>The Lunar Empire has its Glowline to define "us" and "them", linked to a
>deity totally independent from the Emperor. Before the Glowline, the Lunar
>Empire had problems to incorporate the Provinces properly.
How come? They managed to incorporate the Western Reaches and most of
And a final word about the Pharoah:
'At first the Holy Country sought naval supremacy, but after a fleet
It seems he didn't share your view about what he could and could not do.
the Southern Provinces (save Tarsh) before the Glowline was made. Also
the Glowline was built in the war against Sheng Seleris, not the
campaigns of the Conquering Daughter.
was sunk by the Kralori in 1588, the Pharoah decreed that his navy
would _conquer_ [my emphasis] no more'.
Genertela Book p 46.
Theists:
I had described Peloria as close to totally theistic.
>What about other shamanic traditions like the Frog People Greg Stafford
>described in his Questlines story? Rulesbook ancestor worshippers (like
>Duke Raus)?
I do not believe that the Pelorian Ancestor Worshippers are shamanic
anymore than modern chinese ancestor worshippers are. They are largely
nobility and I strongly doubt that a person like Duke Raus has a shaman
on retainer. They would instead use a Vizier or similar personnage.
As for the Frog People, calling them shamanistic is fitting a square
peg into a round hole. They don't fit within the catergory as they
don't have seem to have any shamans. Furthermore they are only a
subgroup of mudders and a very small fraction of Pelorian Society.
Seshnela
>>The only theistic group here is the Pirates of Ginorth. Everybody
>>else belongs to the See of Leplain or the Church of Arolanit.
>Unless you include Fornoar and Orninior, which are old parts of Tanisor (in
>the meaning of "Land on the Tanier River").
Fornoar is a land contested by the Brithini and the Seshnegi as well as
the Lalians (I'm not considering the nonhumans here). Since, the map
indicates the territory belongs to Arolanit, IMO this means that the land
is inhabited lightly by Brithini and subject to incursions by others (ie
settlers, woodsmen etc). When their presence becomes too numerous, the
Brithini undertake to expel them.
Orninior is lies between Khorst and Nolos. I think that the 'simple
>There must be some witch tradition in Seshnela as well, dating back to the
fishermen' who dwell here will be largely westernised.
>cult of Seshna Likita [...] they may be more or as much shamanistic than
>theistic...
I think their magics would be more sorcerous. The 'old women in town' who
treat sicknesses (mentioned in WMFTM: A personal view of Western Culture)
seem to be related to them and they are not suppressed by the Rokari Church
(presumably because their magics seem respectable?)
- --Peter Metcalfe
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