From: Joerg Baumgartner (joe@toppoint.de)
Date: Wed 25 Sep 1996 - 20:20:00 EEST
David Cake
> What do people think about alchemy in Glorantha? Who uses it, how
>does it work (does it bear much resemblance to medieval alchemy?)?
Medieval alchemy: what period do you mean?
I am pretty sure that the alchemy/chemistry described in Georg Agricola's
books on mining (a 16th century German scholar who wrote 13 volumes on
mining in Latin, which remained prime information on mining techniques well
into the last century; worth having a look at just for the woodcuts, if not
for the text) do show some of the most advanced techniques used by human
Gloranthan miners, even though Gloranthan ores have a somewhat mythical
background. Probing of ores on Earth was a pretty advanced science by 1560,
and not all of a sudden. The identification of ores through magical means
would be possible in Glorantha, but a detect spell won't tell anything about
the mixture of ores found (this pertains only to gods' bones ground to dust
in battle or whatever, of course).
Alloying is done by Gloranthans, and not just the Mostali - all coins
(except magically coined wheels) are alloys, according to RQ2, which had
some alchemical concepts mixed with some horrible D&Disms wrt blade venoms
etc. Most of these alloys will be produced not by mixing the purified
metals, but by mixing the ores before purification. At least this is how
brass was known centuries before any metallurgist had seen elemental zinc,
and likewise (and yet earlier) arsenic copper was known from mixing the
ores, not the metals.
Metallurgists will have some (al)chemical skill and insights all over
Glorantha, they will know the correct ores, salts and sands (to produce
slack in th epurifying processes).
Another branch of alchemy collects the magical ingredients for rituals etc.,
not just crystalline, but as frequently from parts of magical entities (and
which aren't in Glorantha?). Animal Lore and Plant Lore might cover some of
this, but alchemy is the skill (or science) of collecting and transmuting
all these components.
> The Mostali already had these techniques at the Dawn, perhaps many
>of their secrets passed to humans in the first council period?
And later. The humans of Dragon Pass have a long history of direct exposure
to superior alchemy (the Dwarf and his Alchemical Transformer), and more
than once human cultures learned a lot by imitating Isidilian's techniques
or results, or even directly from him. Most (in)famous were the Remakers of
the lower River valley (now Beast Valley) who were Orlanthi sorcerers and
alchemists, during the 2nd Age. While their main culture seems to have been
destroyed either in 1042 or by 1120, quite a lot of their knowledge will
have survived in the Kethaelan cities. Less in Peloria, since the invaders
left little of EWF-associated knowledge intact...
>I think the
>early elemental schools of sorcery are probably the original users of
>alchemy among humans, but I am unsure to what degree they simply stole from
>humans.
The Brithini most certainly have alchemists, and those cultures imitating
them do as well. The lore of the pure metals (taken from hermetic
traditions, I think, but as a chemist I am a lot more familiar with the
materialistic achievements of the alchemists than with their - sometimes
abstruse - theories) smacks of the Kingdom of Logic rather than from Mostali
ways. IMO the Mostali might even have ways to define new Pure metals from
their research...
> Of course, some 'alchemy' secrets e.g. many RQ2 systemic poisons,
>are really just a specific application of other knowledges. Many elves can
>produce fancy potions, for example, but this is by knowledge of plant lore
>and secret plants, not alchemy as such.
The potions of RQ2 are too much D&D-leftovers for my taste, with instant
effects reproducing magical spells. Nothing against reproducing spell
effects, but please not just by quaffing some liquid if it has some tangible
effect other than pushing the body limits of the users. A hypothetical
"potion" of Invisibility should be an ointment rather than a drink.
And to bind the magical effects the alchemists in my Glorantha use ground
gods' blood as a carrier substance, along with blood and other carriers of
life force. No permanent POW enchantments for potions, what would be the
point? Alchemists use external sources for their magic, not internal sources
(MP, POW) like sorcerers do.
> I think the metamagical basis of many alchemical theories is that
>the substance within the 'hermetically' sealed vessel is cut off from the
>effects of the normal world, in effect becoming like a small piece of the
>heroplane, where simple physical actions then have a magical refining
>effect.
This is an interesting approach, reminiscent of Salomo's bottles. The spirit
Looks like there could be several approaches to alchemy in Glorantha, using
or essence of some substance is held in the vessel... This makes
distillation quite widespread. <g>
different traditions. Any ideas about the Vithelan lore of the substances?
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