Matters mundane

From: Peter Metcalfe (
Date: Thu 17 Oct 1996 - 12:04:07 EEST

Michael Cule:

>Peter Metcalfe he say:

>> Oceans Book

>Wha? What's this? Is it official? Who is doing it? Wha? Wha?

I'm talking about the official Oceans Book. Chaosium was planning
to release it as a roolz free booklet about two years back and some
development, I understand, had taken place on it as a result. I don't
know of any current plans for release in light of G:tG and Glorantha
Fantasy Battles (or whatever they call the minatures wargame).

Arf Wilson:

>When and how does the giant cradle event that leads to Sor-Eel's downfall

It happens sometime around 1621 ST. It leads to his downfall because
Sor-Eel has expended all those troops and has nothing to show for it.

>When is the annual caravan from the Redhair place to the Lunar Empire?

I imagine the Lunars visit Redhair place as soon as the snow melts so
they can spend their summers in Kralorela before returning in the
autumn to avoid the winter.

>Did Starbrow and King Brian die at the fall of Whitewall?

No, they escaped. Only a very few corpse were found in Whitewall
when it finally fell.

Ian Gorlick:

>I object to your rendition of Somash in Sun County because there is
>no evidence to support it.

I'm getting a bad case of Deja-vu here. You raised this very same
objection in digest v03.n227.

IG::Peter seems to have made these up by assuming that the Yelmalion
::prohibitions against men dressing as women and against hazia were
::written specifically with the Somashi in mind. There is no evidence
::to support this.

To which I answered as follows:

Me:There is no evidence in the Pavis Boxed Set to support the following:

: a) Solanthos Ironpike fancies Little Boys.
: b) the banned crop Hazia.
: c) a second abandoned Sun Dome Temple.
: d) a Yelmalio worshipping Baboon

:Yet this did not stop de MOB from creating them for Sun County. So
:why should I have to *find* non-existant evidence to support my
:theory? I'm making it up just like MOB did.

Now I don't like to repeat myself, but if Ian Gorlick continues to ask
for more evidence when there *isn't* *any* *bloody* *evidence* then I
don't see the *point* of continuing this debate! I'm not going to
attempt to change his mind if he doesn't like my theories. Life is too
short and I have better things to do.

>I said that the Somashi could easily give up their funny clothes and
>hazia. You replied "So funny garb and wine in communion are mere
>'cultural practices' and not 'integral parts' of the medieval catholic
>church, say? I don't think so." ^^^^^^^^

>Now really, Peter, you know better than that.

No, I don't. Why don't you try understanding what is actually being
said rather than dismissing it as a quibble.

>Funny clothes are just a cultural practice in the Catholic church. They
>never had to change from their late Roman traditions, but if they had
>to then it would not have made any difference to Catholicism.

Sacred Regalia are not 'just a cultural practice' in the mindset of
*medieval* catholics (I put that word in there for a *reason*). If
the Priest is not wearing his regalia, then the effectiveness of his
sacrements will diminish. A similar argument applies to the use of
wine. 'What? You're using Grape Juice! It's not the Blood of

>You say that hazia is used for ecstatic communion with Somash. Okay,
>that is possible. However, Somash is the Teshnan analog of Yelm. I
>don't associate drugged ecstatic trances with Yelm. You have to make
>clear how Somash differs so that this different form of communion makes
>sense for the Teshnans. Just saying it is so is not convincing.

Why can you not worship the Sun via ecstatic trances? Pentan Shamans
do it all the time! Just because in Peloria, they worship the Sun with
a stiff upper lip does not mean they have to do so everywhere else in
glorantha! Somash is *not* Yelm.

>As for botanical matters, I don't see why you dragged hemp into it except
>as another bad analogy intended to confuse the issue. [blah blah blah]

This paragraph continued with Ian making some objection to Hazia being
found in Teshnos on the grounds that it was found within the Stinking
Forest as well as Sun County. (FWIW I think SC Hazia is prized because
of the flavour). Ian then concluded it by suggesting that they used a
different herb back in Teshnos. Whatever. One *does* wonders though
why he raised it as a critical objection that he needed to be answered
before he would be convinced!

>And finally, you completely over-reacted when you said "And as for the
>fear of gregging about speculations of Teshnos, I suppose we should all
>pack up and go home?"

I would have thought that to classify that as a complete over-reaction
is in itself a complete over-reaction.

>You can't possibly write up the cult of Somash without having a big
>influence on the eventual write-up of Teshnos. We don't have enough
>official information about Teshnos.

But Teshnos has already *been* written up. It's right there in the
Genertela Book! We don't need any more because in all probabilty
there *isn't* any more! It was developed as a funky place for
Praxians to go and raid. 'What are the people there like? They're
soft! Why don't we live there and rule over them like princes then?
I can't stand them fever trees...'

>So I appealled for anybody who may know if there is any
>unpublished material out there that may eventually be coming out. This just
>seems like a good idea before we paint ourselves into a corner.

But you are appealing because you are confronted by an idea that you
don't like and want to wish out of sight. Why don't you just bite
the bullet and adopt something else for your glorantha? What you have
in your glorantha is no business of mine.

And as for the 'painting ourselves into a corner', I think the following
words from the 'Proceedings in Malkionism' would be more helpful then the
'Are we tampering with the Holy Words of Greg and Will He Punish Us When
He Finds Out?' position that Ian's words imply.

        'David Cheng: I'd just like to restate something that Greg has
        said previously, and that I think is worth saying to everyone
        here. There are hundreds and hundreds of little ideas that these
        guys have just whipped off because it struck them which have
        absolutely no development in their minds save for a neat idea.
        One that came up at RuneQuest Con I was the Guild of Chaos Monks.
        Greg admitted, "Yeah, just an idea that popped into my head, wrote
        it down, threw it into a book, because it took up a couple of
        paragraphs." But that's all he knows about the Guild of Chaos
        Monks. So if someone is inspired to flesh out that idea, and
        write an article for Tales of the Reaching Moon, or for Codex, or
        even develop it into a scenario or something, take that ball and
        run with it'.

Now this is the last post I will make on the subject. I do not see
any cogent objection from Ian and I do not *care* whether he doesn't
like it.

- --Peter Metcalfe


End of Glorantha Digest V3 #235

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